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View Full Version : Flatt hurt for Worlds but skates anyways !



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Sasha'sSpins
05-02-2011, 10:26 AM
Rachel's situation aside. I find it odd that the US doesn't bring the first alternate as a matter of course. After all, people do get injured or sick in the few days leading up to an event. My rinky-dink golf team brings the first alternate to every away match, just in case.

I've wondered about that as well.

Flying Camel
05-02-2011, 12:10 PM
Has anyone heard about who she has chosen for her coach? I heard her say they were moving to Palo Alto. Who coaches near there?

nikjil
05-02-2011, 12:49 PM
Agreed.

I had no doubt Czisny should have finished 1st at US Nats. But Flatt got PCS she never would have gotten Internationally(The same with Bradley) and subsequently was held up. I personally felt Nagasu should have been 2nd, Zawadzski 3rd and Flatt 4th.

Flatt fans had no problem ripping Czisny a new a**hole for the last 2 years when Czisny was 11th and Flatt was 5th in 2009. Now that Czisny was 5th and Flatt was 12th, she can deal with getting a new a**hole too.

ETA: Please continue.

Seens to me, there's always been something of a dichotomy at Nationals, with US judges preferring skaters not liked by the international judges. Urbanski/Marvel, anyone? I'm personally in favor of revamping the selection criteria for Worlds, to more acurately reflect international results, rather than just results at Nationals. I was thrilled for Ryan Bradley, but even at his best, he's never been liked by the international judges, and I don't see how the USFSA could reasonably think that he'd be Top 10 at Worlds.

nikjil
05-02-2011, 12:54 PM
And one more thing: about the comparisons with Czisny. I fully admit that I thought it was and should have been the end of Alissa's career. Who could have imagined that Yuka and Jason are such magicians who would produce a transformed and confident Alissa? But one has to consider that all Alissa lacked was consistent jumps. Every other aspect of her skating was superb. With improved consistency Alissa performed very well on the world and national stages.

It is the inverse with Rachael. The only thing in her skating were the consistent jumps. She had nothing else. With the jumps gone she has literally nothing to fall back on. And the bright side of the CoP is that it rewards other aspects of skating.

So while turning Alissa into a medal contender was one gigantic task, the main hurdle was psychological and perhaps tweaking some technical aspects of her jumps. Not so with Rachael--there were just too many aspects of her skating that needed a lifetime of work. I hope she goes on to Stanford and becomes a neurosurgeon or something along these lines--she certainly has the brain power and the drive. But it's time to hang'em up for good.

ITA. The thing with Alissa is that even with inconsistent jumps, the international judges have always liked her. Anybody remember the fall of 2005, she was doing extremely well at the GPs and was the favorite going into US Nationals. It always seemed clear to me that if Alissa could learn to deal with the nerves, she was going to do well at major competitions because she had so many other fine qualities. With Rachael, once the jumps go there is nothing else there.

leafygreens
05-02-2011, 02:28 PM
Seens to me, there's always been something of a dichotomy at Nationals, with US judges preferring skaters not liked by the international judges. Urbanski/Marvel, anyone? I'm personally in favor of revamping the selection criteria for Worlds, to more acurately reflect international results, rather than just results at Nationals. I was thrilled for Ryan Bradley, but even at his best, he's never been liked by the international judges, and I don't see how the USFSA could reasonably think that he'd be Top 10 at Worlds.

I know - why is this? It's crazy! While the team selection doesn't guarantee 2nd and 3rd place skaters get to go, it seems like USFS is afraid to consider anyone else.

emason
05-02-2011, 02:49 PM
I know - why is this? It's crazy! While the team selection doesn't guarantee 2nd and 3rd place skaters get to go, it seems like USFS is afraid to consider anyone else.

The USFS has always wanted, and still wants, US skaters to consider Nationals as their pre-eminent competition of the season; this is the USFS' jewel in their crown from their point of view. In order to get everyone to turn out for the big event, in the best possible condition, they make it the selection event.

Whether this is a good thing or not, I'm not in a position to argue; I can see both sides of the argument.

Aceon6
05-02-2011, 02:50 PM
I know - why is this? It's crazy! While the team selection doesn't guarantee 2nd and 3rd place skaters get to go, it seems like USFS is afraid to consider anyone else.

I think it's an American thing. Everyone gets all whiney and lawsuit happy if the perceived "rules" aren't followed.

If USFS had any balls, they'd develop and publish selection criteria that included current season international results and prior World's that would give them some wiggle room on the #2 and #3 spots. Throw in a monitoring session the week before the travel date, and we might have better results.

That would still make Nationals relevant, but wouldn't lock them in to the Top 2/3.

olympic
05-02-2011, 03:18 PM
Has anyone heard about who she has chosen for her coach? I heard her say they were moving to Palo Alto. Who coaches near there?

This was discussed in another thread months ago, but I think Christy Ness is out there, isn't she? Christy was KY's coach, one of those who helped bring Chen Lu up to speed for Nagano '98, and IMO, coached Bebe Liang to her peak around '04 [I could have the dates wrong, though.]

Can Rachael Flatt do Stanford and skate? Maybe - I think Debi Thomas was a college student while competing in the '86 - '87 season

victoriaheidi
05-02-2011, 03:33 PM
This was discussed in another thread months ago, but I think Christy Ness is out there, isn't she? Christy was KY's coach, one of those who helped bring Chen Lu up to speed for Nagano '98, and IMO, coached Bebe Liang to her peak around '04 [I could have the dates wrong, though.]


I think Christy Ness is "there" in the sense that she lives in the area, but I don't think the Flatt team has gotten anywhere near a decision (which, IMO, is backwards. I knew they wouldn't, but I thought looking around after the GPF and settling on a new coach by the end of the season would make the transition smoother than finding someone over the summer).

olympic
05-02-2011, 04:10 PM
I think Christy Ness is "there" in the sense that she lives in the area, but I don't think the Flatt team has gotten anywhere near a decision (which, IMO, is backwards. I knew they wouldn't, but I thought looking around after the GPF and settling on a new coach by the end of the season would make the transition smoother than finding someone over the summer).

OK. Thanks for the info.

It's a shame really. I think Rachael moving to anyone would be an improvement, even if it's just for a different viewpoint on her skating. Being with Tom Zzzzz has made her stale.

I think someone like Ness might help her with those areas where she is lacking, and at least package her a lot better.

I was watching Rachael on Ice Network during the championships and I really feel that if someone coached her to get down in her knees more, she'd improve in so many areas - speed, height on jumps, flow, overall presentation, etc.

Cheylana
05-02-2011, 04:37 PM
Can Rachael Flatt do Stanford and skate? Maybe - I think Debi Thomas was a college student while competing in the '86 - '87 season
I think someone on the Universal Sports ladies freeskate broadcast mentioned that Flatt had talked to Debi recently about balancing school and competing. So it sounds like, at the very least, she's considering it.

Frau Muller
05-02-2011, 04:42 PM
Latest blog entry by Phil Hersh focuses on Team Flatt and the decision to skate at Worlds despite knowing about the leg injury on April 22:
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/sports_globetrotting/2011/05/coach-why-flatt-skated-at-worlds.html

Phil lays-out the facts, then allows us to absorb Zakrajcek and Flatt's quotes after the SP and the LP.

If it's true that Flatt already knew about the stress fracture injury on April 22, then there was plenty of time to get Mirai on a plane to Moscow, arriving the day before the comp, meaning that she'd be in Russia only for 4 days (so no visa needed). Sure, she'd have jet lag but could be given a sleeping regimen to minimize effects.

If they could send Kimmie Meissner to the last Moscow Worlds (2005) just to "get a feel for future competitions" and to appear in a couple of TV fluffs, the USFSA could have made provisions to have the official alternate on hand, when it was known that one of the competitors was on the cusp of being able to skate.

skatemommy
05-02-2011, 05:25 PM
^wow, say what you want about Phil Hersh but he really did stick to the facts on this one (:rolleyes: at having mentioned it; as if you couldn't read there were none of his pontifications...)

Ania
05-02-2011, 05:36 PM
If it's true that Flatt already knew about the stress fracture injury on April 22, then there was plenty of time to get Mirai on a plane to Moscow, arriving the day before the comp, meaning that she'd be in Russia only for 4 days (so no visa needed).

This is news to me. Could you please link to an embassy/consulate website stating that foreigners do not need a visa to Russia for stays up to 4 days?
As far as I'm aware, entry visa is required even if one is only changing planes in Russia and does not intend to leave the airport (transit visa): http://www.ruscon.org/visa_dep_ENG.html

Triple Butz
05-02-2011, 05:40 PM
Latest blog entry by Phil Hersh focuses on Team Flatt and the decision to skate at Worlds despite knowing about the leg injury on April 22:
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/sports_globetrotting/2011/05/coach-why-flatt-skated-at-worlds.html

Phil lays-out the facts, then allows us to absorb Zakrajcek and Flatt's quotes after the SP and the LP.

If it's true that Flatt already knew about the stress fracture injury on April 22, then there was plenty of time to get Mirai on a plane to Moscow, arriving the day before the comp, meaning that she'd be in Russia only for 4 days (so no visa needed). Sure, she'd have jet lag but could be given a sleeping regimen to minimize effects.

If they could send Kimmie Meissner to the last Moscow Worlds (2005) just to "get a feel for future competitions" and to appear in a couple of TV fluffs, the USFSA could have made provisions to have the official alternate on hand, when it was known that one of the competitors was on the cusp of being able to skate.

I think the backlash is going to get even worse now that we know the truth. If anything good comes out of this, I hope it's that more skaters will realize what a fool Tom Z is and that they could do better with a more sensible coach.