PDA

View Full Version : RSF forcing Russian coaches to coach only Russians until Sochi



Pages : 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8

Cherub721
05-01-2011, 01:53 AM
I think this decision from the RSF, and showing their desperation, only proves one thing....the points system has somewhat successfully eliminated bribery and favoritism among the judges. I may not care for a lot of aspects of the points system, but it most definitely seems to award quality of the performance the night of the competition. So many decades of dominance in pairs and dance, to barely winning any world/oly medals-all within one decade of the removal of 6.0, even with RSF still pouring $$ and support into their skating programs.

That theory would only work if you contend that the current Russian skaters are of the same level as those past medal winners like G&P, K&O, K&P, U&Z, M&D, G&G, B&S, T&M, Plushenko, Urmanov, Yagudin Slutskaya...

Jessica
05-01-2011, 02:32 AM
If the Russian fed would like to have Zoueva/Shpilband back, this is no way to entice them. Why should they give up their lucrative careers and drop the top ice dancers in the world just to return to Russia and train whomever the RFSF gives them for the next 3 years? I doubt Russia could pay them enough for that.

I don't know about Zoueva but isn't Shpilband now an American citizen?

Mayra
05-01-2011, 02:37 AM
I don't know about Zoueva but isn't Shpilband now an American citizen?

Yes.

Meanwhile, Zoueva is a Canadian citizen. :)

caseyedwards
05-01-2011, 02:47 AM
Pile On!! No but seriously have Russians vanished from being part of successful skaters careers? No they are every where!! Ladies gold Russian coach. All dance medalists Russian coaches. The ones with the most talent were the most likely to paid highly to leave and they did-FAST!!

Made4Dancin
05-01-2011, 03:11 AM
I must be stupid. I love the Olympics because everyone from around the world comes to play together. I have never cared how many medals the US wins. As a fan of figure skating, my favorite skaters were always chosen based on who they are and their talents and abilities not what country they come from. So when I hear about stuff like this I just think it's silly.

However, if Russia is trying to repatriate it's coaches I would take it seriously. Meaning, if I were a foreign athlete, I wouldn't trust a Russian coach now. Just as coaches manipulate their athletes to win, they can do the opposite too.

risto1803
05-01-2011, 03:57 AM
Many Russian skaters have said that they learn a lot from their training mates from other countries (I/K from P/B, Voronov from the others in Morozov's group). However, the ones that should be concerned are the top non-russian skaters training with top russian skaters; I wouldn't trust the russian coaches in that case-I'm convinced they will give more support to the russian skaters when the Olympics come (examle: Linichuk with D/S and B/A). I only see one such case: P/B and I/K, and I expect actually the French Federation to pressure P/B to leave Zhulin (and there are already rumors about this).

The Russian Federation can't say anything to Shpilbin and Zueva but they would like a top Russian dance team to train with them-and probably some team will move to S/Z after this season. However, I have the feeling that the Russian Federation would expect in that case S/Z to favor the Russian team over D/W,S/S, V/M, which probably won't happen.

bek
05-01-2011, 04:42 AM
I think this decision from the RSF, and showing their desperation, only proves one thing....the points system has somewhat successfully eliminated bribery and favoritism among the judges. I may not care for a lot of aspects of the points system, but it most definitely seems to award quality of the performance the night of the competition. So many decades of dominance in pairs and dance, to barely winning any world/oly medals-all within one decade of the removal of 6.0, even with RSF still pouring $$ and support into their skating programs.

The Russian federation was hardly able to pour money in the 90s. The program faced a huge exodus of coaches etc, and I frankly don't blame the Russians if they are just a bit bitter about it. If Frank Carroll moved to Russia and started coaching mainly Russians, while American kids weren't being trained, I bet Americans would be bitter. This being said I don't blame the Russian coaches, because they did have families to support etc. And Moskvina moving to the US allowed Russia's top talent to get the training necessary. As another poster said your theory only works if the Russian skaters in Vancover were as good as the Russian skaters of the past-and well they weren't. Yes figure skating can be corrupt and the Russian fed is corrupt, but I don't think anyone can argue that a lot of those Russian champions were amazing.

And second what do the Russians have to be desperate about. They were going to have a rough time given the circumstances. But frankly they are bouncing back remarkably well. Of all the figure skating federations, they are the federation who least needs to be desperate.

In pairs-they are hardly "barely medaling" anymore when they just placed 3 teams in the top 5. They have a ton of young talent in pairs too. In dance, yes right now they aren't medaling. But they have a lot of extremely talented young teams. They dominated juniors this year. I don't know if they will have gold by Sochi, but THEY will be in the mix in dance soon.

In Ladies-they have a ton of young talent.

Mens-well that's hardly great, but they did just get a medal.

aliona22
05-01-2011, 05:45 AM
Does Gorshkov have any non-Russian teams besides Hoffman/Zavozin?

Domshabfan
05-01-2011, 06:21 AM
The Russian federation was hardly able to pour money in the 90s. The program faced a huge exodus of coaches etc, and I frankly don't blame the Russians if they are just a bit bitter about it. If Frank Carroll moved to Russia and started coaching mainly Russians, while American kids weren't being trained, I bet Americans would be bitter. This being said I don't blame the Russian coaches, because they did have families to support etc. And Moskvina moving to the US allowed Russia's top talent to get the training necessary. As another poster said your theory only works if the Russian skaters in Vancover were as good as the Russian skaters of the past-and well they weren't. Yes figure skating can be corrupt and the Russian fed is corrupt, but I don't think anyone can argue that a lot of those Russian champions were amazing.

And second what do the Russians have to be desperate about. They were going to have a rough time given the circumstances. But frankly they are bouncing back remarkably well. Of all the figure skating federations, they are the federation who least needs to be desperate.

In pairs-they are hardly "barely medaling" anymore when they just placed 3 teams in the top 5. They have a ton of young talent in pairs too. In dance, yes right now they aren't medaling. But they have a lot of extremely talented young teams. They dominated juniors this year. I don't know if they will have gold by Sochi, but THEY will be in the mix in dance soon.

In Ladies-they have a ton of young talent.

Mens-well that's hardly great, but they did just get a medal.
Good point about Frank Carroll where supposedly coaching in Russia, posters here would show us a long list of how much money USFSA spent in success of Frank's coaching ... also on that note, i would like to examine the anger of some of the posters on GSD on GE sponsoring Chinese FS team.

http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=78607.

\Here, GE is being heavily criticised for sponsoring Chinese team and helping a FS team quote '' funded by communist sports machine''. Yet then they should also criticise GE for trading with China as well. We would like your yuans but we will not spend any profit in your country.

I can see where Russians are doing, argument being we are funding you heavily, so you must coach just our athletes. However the decision is lunatic, they are just mad in doing that since they are not winning any friends. and may even cause some coaches to leave the country.

BigB08822
05-01-2011, 07:26 AM
I think Sochi is going to have tons of potential for huge scandals. I think the Russian fed will stop at nothing to dominate and we could see some gigantic judging scandals. Just a feeling.

millipied
05-01-2011, 07:52 AM
I think Sochi is going to have tons of potential for huge scandals. I think the Russian fed will stop at nothing to dominate and we could see some gigantic judging scandals. Just a feeling.

Yeah, sure. And this championship just proved your point that event in Russia equals judging scandal.:rolleyes:

Ozzisk8tr
05-01-2011, 08:25 AM
As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, I'm a fan of the sport not which country the skaters are from. Some of the fans on here I'm not so keen on because of their ill will towards some skaters (depending on the country the skaters are from) however. I think the RSF's decision will make more people just go :rolleyes: at them than think they are doing the right thing.

Oddly enough, majority of the Rachael hate comes from their own countrymen, likewise with the Alissa hate in the past. This being said though, I was honestly shocked and very appalled by some of the comments in the freedance thread last night. Some of those people should be very ashamed of what they were saying. I lost much respect for a couple of posters who I'd had respect for in the past. Some of it was (sort of)friendly jibing, but some was just nasty.

equatorial
05-01-2011, 10:04 AM
As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, I'm a fan of the sport not which country the skaters are from. Some of the fans on here I'm not so keen on because of their ill will towards some skaters (depending on the country the skaters are from) however. I think the RSF's decision will make more people just go :rolleyes: at them than think they are doing the right thing.

Oddly enough, majority of the Rachael hate comes from their own countrymen, likewise with the Alissa hate in the past. This being said though, I was honestly shocked and very appalled by some of the comments in the freedance thread last night. Some of those people should be very ashamed of what they were saying. I lost much respect for a couple of posters who I'd had respect for in the past. Some of it was (sort of)friendly jibing, but some was just nasty.
You should read some Russian FS boards where Russian posters bash Russian skaters left, right and centre :lol: Nowhere does Rachel hate come even close to that.

Asli
05-01-2011, 10:30 AM
If the Russian fed would like to have Zoueva/Shpilband back, this is no way to entice them. Why should they give up their lucrative careers and drop the top ice dancers in the world just to return to Russia and train whomever the RFSF gives them for the next 3 years? I doubt Russia could pay them enough for that.

This new development has nothing to do with Zoueva/Shpilband. Shpilband would not even be a Russian citizen, since he defected to the USA during Soviet times. Not sure about Zoueva, but isn't she Canadian?

Russian skating is mainly funded by taxpayers' money. If I understand correctly, this rule concerns Russian coaches who receive a salary from the state, who use state or municipal facilities for free, whose successful students are funded and provided with free off-ice training, free lodging and other conditions that western skaters cannot dream of and who, as an extra source of income, take on foreign students. I understand that a state salary is not sufficient income for a top coach, but they also receive 30% of their Russian students' prize money, which wouldn't be the case with foreign students.

As for Morozov, he doesn't strike me as the charitable type, nor the nationalistic type, so surely he went to Russia because he was offered very good conditions. He was offered those conditions to prepare Russian skaters to Sochi. He can't have everything.

I'm sure no Russian coaches want to leave Russia until Sochi and this rule is valid only until then.

Domshabfan
05-01-2011, 10:39 AM
I think Sochi is going to have tons of potential for huge scandals. I think the Russian fed will stop at nothing to dominate and we could see some gigantic judging scandals. Just a feeling.

Do you think because the competition is in Russia and if Russians don't like the result of an event (Like Plushy Vs Lysacek case ), Russians will create a huge scandal?, since support of local media is equally important, if not Plushenko would be walking around with a joint gold medal as well.