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Ziggy
04-30-2011, 08:39 PM
I agree that some not-to-be-named Russian skaters could benefit from Lori Nichols or David Wilsons. But Russian training system is different and I hardly imagine that scenario when Mishin or Moskvina would allow such collaborations.

Tom Dickson choreographed Lutai's programs for last season.

But this was probably the only time I've seen a foreign choreographer work for a Russian skater.

millipied
04-30-2011, 08:41 PM
Tom Dickson choreographed Lutai's programs for last season.

But this was probably the only time I've seen a foreign choreographer work for a Russian skater.

And where is Lutai now?:lol:

bek
04-30-2011, 08:41 PM
Whilst this reasoning is definitely valid, it might backfire terribly when - as you said - coaches are going to get jobs in US, Canada or Europe.

pp55 - Thank you very much for that article link.

Perhaps a better compromise would be you can work with non Russians, but no non Russian that is a real threat to our current stars. For example, no Tarasova you can't take Mao when she may be a threat to Adelina or Tuktamysheva.

I really don't think thats completely unfair.

I mean in fairness I actually can understand why the Russian Federation IS frustrated. Weren't all but one of the top 10 dance teams at the Olympics coached by Russian/Soviet trained coaches. Asada/Ando have used Russian coaches for awhile. Arakawa having Russian coaches. While it was a help for sure being able to have skaters train in America, its not like the rest of the world has been so generous with their coaches for Russian skaters, or the Russians have used them.

I DO wish the Russian singles skaters would use some foreign choregraphers.

marbri
04-30-2011, 08:46 PM
No kidding. :wall: How exactly do they plan to enforce this? Trip to the Gulag?

It doesn't have to be so severe ;) Just don't hand out any visas.

IceAlisa
04-30-2011, 08:48 PM
It doesn't have to be so severe ;) Just don't hand out any visas.

I know, I was being :drama:. But still, it's an extreme measure.

Nmsis
04-30-2011, 08:49 PM
Isn't it confirmed that Amodio is leaving?
No, it isn't.

In this article (http://www.toutleski.com/news/ski-toutes-disciplines/CID9903/mondiaux-amodio-ne-devrait-plus-s-entraner-pleinement-avec-morozov.html), Gailhaguet is saying that, with the new policy of the russian fed, Florent won't be training full time with Morozov and that he has negociated a kind of part-time collaboration.

And in this article (http://www.lequipe.fr/Ski/20110430_200805_amodio-morozov-la-fin.html), there is the same thing from Gailhaguet and a quote from Morozov stating he wants to go on working with Florent, that he is an independant coach and that nobody can tell him what he can or cannot do.


:shuffle:

bek
04-30-2011, 09:01 PM
The Russian fed is looking increasingly desperate. I think Sochi is going to backfire on them big time, except in pairs (at least I hope the Russian pairs don't get f*cked over).

I hope they at least drop that rule after Sochi. Many of the coaches will choose "No Russians" over "only Russians" and then you will get another Marina/Igor situation. And I agree that training alongside skaters such as P&B is helpful to the young generation of Russian skaters.

I'd rather they try carrots instead of sticks: create a supportive and comfortable environment for any Russian coaches who wish to repatriate, and perhaps offer financial incentives to lower level coaches to coach Russians only, so that way they never leave in the first place.

What do the Russians have to be desperate about though. They have rebuilded their pairs program with more depth than anyone. They have a ton of young Wonderbaby jumpers, and given how the Ladies are skating right now...They have a lot of talented young dance skaters-and then Artur.

The thing is it depends. I know a famous Ukranian gymnastics coach joined the Russian gymnastics coaching team. Because he was promised not only boat loads of money (money he could make anywhere) But he was also promised something else that was equally important to him.-We will fund like we did in Soviet times.

I mean if the Russian federation is promising to rebuild a system similar to Soviet times- we will pay you Western like $ to train the talented kids, no matter if their parents can $ or not.

Well that's an attractive carrot. Because coaches want to win. And I get the feeling from reading Rodnina etc that a lot of the Russian coaches do feel that a system that is based on getting training based on talent/ ability, vs paren'ts money is the one more likely to have success.

So it depends.

euterpe
04-30-2011, 09:39 PM
If the Russian fed would like to have Zoueva/Shpilband back, this is no way to entice them. Why should they give up their lucrative careers and drop the top ice dancers in the world just to return to Russia and train whomever the RFSF gives them for the next 3 years? I doubt Russia could pay them enough for that.

Fashionista
04-30-2011, 09:44 PM
Tom Dickson choreographed Lutai's programs for last season.

But this was probably the only time I've seen a foreign choreographer work for a Russian skater.

Lori Nichol choreographed T/M's programs.

millipied
04-30-2011, 10:01 PM
If the Russian fed would like to have Zoueva/Shpilband back, this is no way to entice them. Why should they give up their lucrative careers and drop the top ice dancers in the world just to return to Russia and train whomever the RFSF gives them for the next 3 years? I doubt Russia could pay them enough for that.

Zoueva/Shpilband have no desire or possibility to return to Russia even if Russia entice them.

Ziggy
04-30-2011, 10:03 PM
Lori Nichol choreographed T/M's programs.

Good point, totally forgot about them. :)

Is it confirmed that Pechalat/Bourzat are going to Krylova & Camerlengo?

If it's true, I am absolutely ecstatic!

They are super creative and did wonders with Weaver/Poje.

bibi
04-30-2011, 11:32 PM
aren't Morozov students training in Latvia ? If so, it would not affect them right?

woodstock
04-30-2011, 11:46 PM
I think this decision from the RSF, and showing their desperation, only proves one thing....the points system has somewhat successfully eliminated bribery and favoritism among the judges. I may not care for a lot of aspects of the points system, but it most definitely seems to award quality of the performance the night of the competition. So many decades of dominance in pairs and dance, to barely winning any world/oly medals-all within one decade of the removal of 6.0, even with RSF still pouring $$ and support into their skating programs.

millipied
05-01-2011, 12:13 AM
I think this decision from the RSF, and showing their desperation, only proves one thing....the points system has somewhat successfully eliminated bribery and favoritism among the judges. I may not care for a lot of aspects of the points system, but it most definitely seems to award quality of the performance the night of the competition. So many decades of dominance in pairs and dance, to barely winning any world/oly medals-all within one decade of the removal of 6.0, even with RSF still pouring $$ and support into their skating programs.

I think it's been pointed out by many that the reason for the draught in Russian FS talent is the collapse of Soviet training system, infrastructure and subsequent departure of most coaches to the West. RSF started to pour money into sport only after they won Sochi Olympics, which is one year. Also if you look closely all those quality successes under COP are still accomplished with Russian coaching. At least in Dance.

oleada
05-01-2011, 01:52 AM
I think this decision from the RSF, and showing their desperation, only proves one thing....the points system has somewhat successfully eliminated bribery and favoritism among the judges. I may not care for a lot of aspects of the points system, but it most definitely seems to award quality of the performance the night of the competition. So many decades of dominance in pairs and dance, to barely winning any world/oly medals-all within one decade of the removal of 6.0, even with RSF still pouring $$ and support into their skating programs.

I think it was a successful Worlds medal-wise when you consider that their team is extremely young and inexperienced.

There was not a lot of money poured into skating until relatively recently.