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View Full Version : Let's move to next season: Will we see the first ISU rectified 4F and 4Lo and 4T+4T?



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misskarne
05-05-2011, 03:08 AM
It's not the same to try it after knee injury at 28 when you don't need it to win, and try it at 16, when healthy and newbie at senior level.

When you don't need it to win? I may not like Chan, but I can accept that he's turning into a bloody good skater and if he can land that 4T consistently without turning into human Zamboni he will be a threat to Plushenko.

I don't blame Plushenko for rolling out every weapon in his arsenal to stay at the top. In fact, it makes it more fun. Everyone thinks they're getting close to even with him in the jump department...BANG, he raises the bar again. :lol:

He knows he needs the giant TES scores because he'll never get the sort of PCS that Chan gets. He could put in every transition in existence, have the most beautiful choreo ever made, interpret it perfectly, and he'd never get the PCS scores that Chan does. There's nothing wrong with him trying to compensate for his PCS with his TES.

So while I do fret about his knee somewhat, if he wants to push the jumps to another level and throw down the gauntlet to the others, why not. Go right ahead! It will be fabulous!:rollin:

misskarne
05-05-2011, 03:10 AM
This is why I'd like to see a competition (or competition segment) for isolated jumps outside the context of a program.

That would be a much more practical format in which to encourage skaters to push the envelope with rotations and combos that take too much out of them to perform in the middle (beginning) of a fully loaded competitive freeskate.

There used to be a pro competition like that. I think it was called Top Jump? It would be freaking awesome to see all the combos busted out.

On the subject of combos, I'd love to see Plushenko return his 3A-.5Lo-3F!

BigB08822
05-05-2011, 04:03 AM
I think if anyone could do a 4toe/4toe it would be Chan. His 4toe is about as easy as they come and his landings are lighter than Plushenkos so I feel he carries his momentum into the next jump better than anyone else.

That being said, I would never work on it. Just do two separate quads if you want 2 quads in the program. It probably is not worth the few extra points to do them together and of course your chances of getting them verified are pretty slim. It might be worth it some day if the ISU ever comes to their senses and gives the 2nd jump in combinations a higher factoring.

briancoogaert
05-05-2011, 08:08 AM
When you don't need it to win? I may not like Chan, but I can accept that he's turning into a bloody good skater and if he can land that 4T consistently without turning into human Zamboni he will be a threat to Plushenko.
What are you talking about ? I was talking about last season for Vancouver.
The video of 3A/4T by Plushenko dates back to 2009. Chan wasn't doing two quads in his LP at this time. In 2009, #1 and #2 at Worlds were quadless.
And do you really believe that Plushenko will be back anytime soon with a 3A/4T, with the hope of beating Chan ? :slinkaway

senorita
05-05-2011, 09:11 AM
^ does anyone have hope to beat Chan after these Worlds?

misskarne
05-05-2011, 12:45 PM
And do you really believe that Plushenko will be back anytime soon with a 3A/4T, with the hope of beating Chan ? :slinkaway

Yes, yes, and yes.

Plushenko is coming back. This has been verified many, many, many times by the ISU, the RFS, and Plushenko himself. I am sick to death of repeating myself. When will people get it through their thick skulls that he was not banned for life?

I'm sure if he is capable of doing it, he will try the 3A-4T in competition. And why not? He wants to win, he wants to be the best, and if it means raising the bar a few notches higher, so be it.

The fact that that 3A-4T attempt is from 2009, when he was out of shape and in a fair amount of pain, only makes it much more impressive in my eyes.

Plushenko is in great shape at the moment, training hard, and working on his new competition programs, to be debuted at a show this month (or next, translation wasn't 100% clear on the date). He's remastered his 4S, and apparently is just about there with his 4Lo and 4Lz. He's been working with new choreographers, including Zhulin and a ballet dancer, and has fixed some of the problems haters like to pick on, including the height of his sit spin.

He's going to be 100% competitive this season, he's going to take the fight to Chan, and he's going to love every second of it.

Proustable
05-05-2011, 02:07 PM
I don't think the question was if he was banned for life. I think the question is will he choose to come back still.

Has he ever landed the 4S in competition?

Meanwhile, Chan's going to seriously start practicing both the 4F and 4Lz. He says he'll wait until he has an 80% success rate with either before putting them in a program.

millipied
05-05-2011, 03:32 PM
According to Mishin, Gachinsky plans to add 2nd quad in his LP and it is going to be 4Loop. http://www.sports.ru/others/figure-skating/95108372.html

senorita
05-05-2011, 05:21 PM
Has he ever landed the 4S in competition?


yes ratified one, Russia Cup series before the Olympics in Torino.

briancoogaert
05-05-2011, 09:56 PM
Yes, yes, and yes.

Plushenko is coming back. This has been verified many, many, many times by the ISU, the RFS, and Plushenko himself. I am sick to death of repeating myself. When will people get it through their thick skulls that he was not banned for life?

I'm sure if he is capable of doing it, he will try the 3A-4T in competition. And why not? He wants to win, he wants to be the best, and if it means raising the bar a few notches higher, so be it.
I know he is not banned for life. I doubt he'll be back, that's it. But you seem so sure. With time, I get the feeling that you are Plushenko himself...


yes ratified one, Russia Cup series before the Olympics in Torino.
Really ? Plushenko ? 2005 Cup of Russia ? I have just checked protocols, and no 4Sal :

1 4T+3T 13.0 0.80 2 1 0 1 1 2 1 1 0 1 - - 13.80
2 3Lz 6.0 1.40 1 2 1 1 1 2 1 2 1 2 - - 7.40
3 3Lo 5.0 1.40 1 2 1 1 1 2 1 2 1 1 - - 6.40
4 3A 7.5 1.60 2 1 2 2 2 2 1 1 2 2 - - 9.10
5 3Lz+2T 7.3 -0.20 0 7.10 1 0 0 -1 0 0 0 -1 0 - - 7.10
6 3A+COMBO 7.5 -2.00 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -1 -2 -2 -2 -1 - 5.50
7 2T 1.3 0.00 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - - 1.30
8 3F 6.1x -0.20 0 0 0 0 -1 0 0 0 -1 0 - - 5.90
9 CCoSp1 2.0 0.40 0 1 1 1 0 1 0 1 -1 0 - - 2.40
10 CiSt1 1.8 0.80 1 1 2 2 0 2 1 1 2 1 - - 2.60
11 3S* 0.0 0.00 1 2 1 1 0 1 1 1 0 1 - - 0.00
12 FCSp3 2.3 0.50 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 2 0 1 - - 2.80
13 SlSt2 2.3 0.70 1 1 2 2 0 2 0 0 2 1 - - 3.00
14 FSSp3 2.3 0.10 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 - - 2.40
15 CCoSp1 2.0 0.80 1 2 1 1 0 2 0 2 2 1 - - 2.80

senorita
05-05-2011, 10:14 PM
Yes but I said Russia Cup series, not Cup of Russia. :) September, Sarmanka I think, cant spell the city!
You were sure Plushenko wouldnt be back for Vancouver also:PI think he came back to pick on you!

caseyedwards
05-05-2011, 10:14 PM
I didn't think they meant the official COR of 2005 but rather one of the Russian competitions also called Cup of Russia

ETA - I knew it!

Also Gachinski said his 3 loop issues came from practicing 4 loops.

screech
05-06-2011, 05:00 AM
Patrick recently said he's going to start practicing a 4f and/or 4lz, though he won't include it until it's 80%. He said that he was motivated by Dai's attempts at the 4f. With the height and ease of his jumps, I could see Patrick having one of the above in a competitive program within the next two years, especially if he keeps improving his content difficulty like he has been. It's insane to think that just one year ago he didn't have a quad. Now he lands 3 in competition, and it's probably his best jump.

mag
05-06-2011, 04:53 PM
...
He knows he needs the giant TES scores because he'll never get the sort of PCS that Chan gets. He could put in every transition in existence, have the most beautiful choreo ever made, interpret it perfectly, and he'd never get the PCS scores that Chan does. There's nothing wrong with him trying to compensate for his PCS with his TES....

This drives me nuts! IF Plushenko (and that is a very big IF) were have choreo like Chan's and IF he was to skate it like Chan, I see no reason why he wouldn't get the PCS marks. It is not as if he has ever been held down in the PCS department. That fact is that Plushenko didn't skate like that last year so he didn't earn the marks.

Let's stop perpetuating a myth that poor Plushenko's marks are held down in any way, shape or form!