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Aussie Willy
04-26-2011, 02:14 AM
Joannie's best 3toe+1loop+3Salchow IMO was in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faY2G56ZF2E

It was also spectacular when she did it at the 2010 Japan Open earlier this season! I can't locate the video for that performance now though. :(

Thanks for posting that one. I just love that program. That combination was really good though. It had much better flow than Maria's and was more effortless.

I suppose to get onto the 1/2lo you have to cut the landing edge short on the landing of the 3t. Joannie's looked a lot more controlled than Maria's.

judgejudy27
04-26-2011, 07:21 AM
Maria was always one of my fave's but SO many errors really cost her a lot of gold medals.


Medals maybe but gold medals. These are the only events I can think of where Maria could have possibly won gold without her errors:

2000 Worlds
2001 Europeans (maybe)
1999 Grand Prix final
1998 Nations Cup or Lalique (forget which one, but the one Sokolova won)
1997 Skate Canada (maybe, only since Kwan had some major errors as she wasnt even a remote rival otherwise back then)

And that is all unless you have any other suggestions. Hardly alot in the grand scheme of things of her long career. Although had she skated a clean LP and defended her World title at the 2000 Worlds it would have opened up alot of doors for her the final 2 seasons which all but shut on the aging skater at that point.

PashaFan
04-26-2011, 10:42 AM
Medals maybe but gold medals. These are the only events I can think of where Maria could have possibly won gold without her errors:

2000 Worlds
2001 Europeans (maybe)
1999 Grand Prix final
1998 Nations Cup or Lalique (forget which one, but the one Sokolova won)
1997 Skate Canada (maybe, only since Kwan had some major errors as she wasnt even a remote rival otherwise back then)

And that is all unless you have any other suggestions. Hardly alot in the grand scheme of things of her long career. Although had she skated a clean LP and defended her World title at the 2000 Worlds it would have opened up alot of doors for her the final 2 seasons which all but shut on the aging skater at that point.
The 2000 Europeans, she had errors in the short that really cost her. The qualification round at the World's in 2001, I think she had a good chance at Gold going into those World's. She always got excellent artistic marks & was better with her presentation than Slutskaya & Hughes.
But hey, three European Gold medals & a World title when most had written her off because of her age is not bad.

SmallFairy
04-26-2011, 10:52 AM
Maria was a good better edge jumper than toe jumper, her 3loop was her best jump, and her salchow was always very high and full of air, I'm not surprised she went for the 3thalf loop 3 sal combo, instead of a 3t3t or 3z3t. Her lutz was nice when landed, but she almost always had some trouble with the flip.

I can't recall her ever try a 3z3t in practices or competitions I have seen her in, but of course, that's just a few.

Her landing knee was always very stiff and it caused her a lot of trouble, but she was a lovely skater, and she really pushed her technical content at a high age, adding a second 3z to her programs (not always landed though) and the 3,3 sequence.

She was such a headcase with Kudriatsev, I remember 95 euros when she totally fell apart. When she switched to Tchaikovskaya, it was like something fell into place, they seemed like such a good match. Marias Otonal will forever be one of my favourites, when she won in Helsinki I was in tears, she really gave everything for that victory, no holding back.

judgejudy27
04-26-2011, 10:54 AM
The 2000 Europeans, she had errors in the short that really cost her. The qualification round at the World's in 2001, I think she had a good chance at Gold going into those World's. She always got excellent artistic marks & was better with her presentation than Slutskaya & Hughes.
But hey, three European Gold medals & a World title when most had written her off because of her age is not bad.

At the 2000 Europeans she took herself out of it in the short program, but her long program was one of her best ever and Slutskaya skated cautiously with no triple-triple attempt and still drubbed her. She was never winning there, since Irina was clearly the panels favorite. If she had done that same long program at Worlds that year she would have won however.

Worlds in 2001? She skated a clean short program and the judges still put her only 5th, which ended up costing her the bronze even with bombing the Q round. She would have still gotten the bronze atleast if she skated better in the Q round, but it doesnt seem the judges considered her a serious threat for gold at that point. Maybe going into the 2001 Grand Prix final she still was.

FunnyBut
04-26-2011, 12:34 PM
When I saw the thread title , I was only thinking about 3-3 combos, not sequences.

I thought it would be a really short video :lol:

DBZ
04-26-2011, 01:08 PM
She was such a headcase with Kudriatsev, I remember 95 euros when she totally fell apart. When she switched to Tchaikovskaya, it was like something fell into place, they seemed like such a good match.

Interestingly, I thought her landings looked their best and the smoothest (for Maria, that is) pre-Tchaikovskaya. In her programs from 1996 on back, her knee bend was so much softer and controlled.

From 97 onward, everything seemed to get stiffer and wonkier. Granted, she never was a fluid skater to begin with, but I always felt her jumps looked back pre-1996.

PashaFan
04-26-2011, 04:49 PM
At the 2000 Europeans she took herself out of it in the short program, but her long program was one of her best ever and Slutskaya skated cautiously with no triple-triple attempt and still drubbed her. She was never winning there, since Irina was clearly the panels favorite. If she had done that same long program at Worlds that year she would have won however.

Worlds in 2001? She skated a clean short program and the judges still put her only 5th, which ended up costing her the bronze even with bombing the Q round. She would have still gotten the bronze atleast if she skated better in the Q round, but it doesnt seem the judges considered her a serious threat for gold at that point. Maybe going into the 2001 Grand Prix final she still was.
I agree, Slutskaya could do no wrong at the Euro's. Even after Butyrskaya retired they still went for Slutskaya over others.
2003-Sokolova was better (Irina fell yet still won, plus with little artistry).
2005-Poykio was better (Irina had an awful free-skate yet still won).
2006-Sokolova was better for me, but I think it was close.

briancoogaert
04-26-2011, 06:24 PM
I agree, Slutskaya could do no wrong at the Euro's. Even after Butyrskaya retired they still went for Slutskaya over others.
2003-Sokolova was better (Irina fell yet still won, plus with little artistry).
2005-Poykio was better (Irina had an awful free-skate yet still won).
2006-Sokolova was better for me, but I think it was close.
Well, to be fair, Vanessa Gusmeroli was better in the LP at 2000 Euros ;)

judgejudy27
04-26-2011, 09:14 PM
I definitely thought Irina was the easy winner in 2006. Sokolova only did the same jumps as her and Irina's good jumps are better than Elena's, and her spins, footwork, even spirals, and overall skating are much better (they dont have to be great to be better since Elena is weak in all non jumping departments). I can only see any argument for Sokolova ever beating Slutskaya if she does far harder jumps or Irina makes major mistakes, which is what happened in 2003 so I guess I could see an argument for Sokolova that year.

2005 I dont think Irina should have won the long program but she probably deserved to win overall. Her PCS in the long program were an embarassment though.

2000 Maria should have won the long program phase over Irina for sure, even though it wouldnt have mattered overall.

PashaFan
04-27-2011, 10:33 AM
Sorry, I just don't agree. Vanessa was better than Maria at the worlds in the free skate but at the Euros Maria was better, plus she had the triple toe half loop triple salchow combination. Vanessa did not have a triple triple combo.
As for the 2005 Euro's Poykio for me was the complete package. Her programmes were more interesting.
I was never that big on Slutskaya, yes she improved her presentation but I always found her bland.
But hey, that's why we love figure skating, we all have our fave skaters !!!!!!

bartek
04-27-2011, 12:01 PM
When I saw the thread title , I was only thinking about 3-3 combos, not sequences.

I thought it would be a really short video :lol:

Well, I made video for Fumie Suguri and it's really short. I found only three combos - NHK 2000, Goodwill Games 2001 and Skate Canada 2001. Do you know any others?

judgejudy27
04-27-2011, 08:36 PM
Sorry, I just don't agree. Vanessa was better than Maria at the worlds in the free skate but at the Euros Maria was better, plus she had the triple toe half loop triple salchow combination. Vanessa did not have a triple triple combo.
As for the 2005 Euro's Poykio for me was the complete package. Her programmes were more interesting.
I was never that big on Slutskaya, yes she improved her presentation but I always found her bland.
But hey, that's why we love figure skating, we all have our fave skaters !!!!!!


I am definitely not a fan of Slutskaya's skating, and I do enjoy Poyko's skating and find her underrated. Still if Irina's short program was far better than Poykio or any of the other women. I might have placed her 3rd in the long behind Poykio and Liashenko but it wouldnt have changed the overall final placings though. Unfortunately Poykio lacked the speed and power and command to ever be a top skater at the World level even though she was pleasent, and in only a year even someone like Emily Hughes would be easily beating her.

Sokolova is also a bland skater with little artistry like Irina, but she is much weaker than Irina in spins, footwork, speed, and basic skating quality as well.

And I agree with you on Europeans 2000. Maria should have won the long program, 2nd could have gone to either Slutskaya or Gusmeroli. Volchkova beating out Gusmoli for the bronze was a disagrace.

briancoogaert
04-28-2011, 08:26 AM
And I agree with you on Europeans 2000. Maria should have won the long program, 2nd could have gone to either Slutskaya or Gusmeroli. Volchkova beating out Gusmoli for the bronze was a disagrace.
Thank you ;)