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RUKen
04-25-2011, 01:38 PM
The problem is that if you only have 5 countries in the final, those places are going to pretty much go by default to powerhouses like USA, Canada, Russia, etc. so why bother? It would take many many years for other feds to get to that level. Is it worth the time and effort? From an earlier post: They should have added synchronised skating, instead.

It's not all that unusual for a Winter Olympics sport to be dominated by five (or fewer) countries. If synchronized skating had been added, they may have imposed the same restriction on the number of teams competing, so these places would go "by default" to Finland, Sweden, USA, Canada, and probably Russia.

skatemommy
04-25-2011, 01:45 PM
It's not all that unusual for a Winter Olympics sport to be dominated by five (or fewer) countries. If synchronized skating had been added, how many federations would have been competitive for medals?

Finland and Switzerland (I'm not a synchro expert)

Skittl1321
04-25-2011, 02:09 PM
Finland and Switzerland (I'm not a synchro expert)

I don't think Switerland is a synchro powerhouse... are you thinking of Sweden?

From 2000 (the first year it was held) to 2011 (according to Wikipedia), the only countries that have medalled at Synchro World's are Sweden, Finland, Canada, and USA.

The medal count is
Sweden - 5 golds, 4 silver, 1 bronze
Finland - 6 golds, 6 silver, 4 bronze
Canada - 1 gold, 1 silver, 5 bronze
USA - 1 silver, 2 bronze

Five of the years Finland has won 2 medals.


I can kind of see what they mean by not having enough countries competitive in synchro for it to go to the Olympics. Isn't that why they got rid of softball?

Ziggy
04-25-2011, 03:00 PM
If synchronized skating had been added, they may have imposed the same restriction on the number of teams competing, so these places would go "by default" to Finland, Sweden, USA, Canada, and probably Russia.

Synchro should be at Olympics with 20 spots, 15 at least!

julieann
04-25-2011, 05:01 PM
The problem is that if you only have 5 countries in the final, those places are going to pretty much go by default to powerhouses like USA, Canada, Russia, etc. so why bother? It would take many many years for other feds to get to that level. Is it worth the time and effort?

Was it worth the effort that Yao Bin or Luan Bo put into pairs in China? Sure it took time but eventually their hard work paid off and will continue to do so. Unless some feel one gold, two silvers and two bronze at the Olympics plus countless world titles isn't enough.

Skittl1321
04-25-2011, 05:10 PM
Synchro should be at Olympics with 20 spots, 15 at least!

Considering they don't want to raise the number of athletes at the games, there is no way that's going to happen. Even at only 8 athletes per team that's 120 to 160 more athletes. If the teams skate 20, then that's 300 to 400 athletes. Not coaches, other personel (team leader, doctors, etc) or alternates (which isn't the same as a single or pair alternate- these alternates skate with the team through warmup, a singles skater alternate would be more analagous to a country naming a different team as an alternate team in case of a withdraw).

I'm not sure what exactly the international number is right now. The USFS rulebook says 16 for senior, but there are 19 pictured in the champions banner. My guess is the extra 3 account for skaters who did the short, but not the long, or vice versus.

The IOC is not going to let that happen. They don't want to expand the numbers at the Olympics- they want events that will allow them to make more money using existing athletes and venues

ItalianFan
04-25-2011, 05:42 PM
Is this a Plushenko consolation prize?

Whyever would Plushenko need a "consolation" prize? Because after being out of the action for nearly 4 years, he "only" came in 2nd in the Olympics after losing by literally a hair? because he "only" won the European Championships a month before the Olympics? Because everywhere he goes to perform his fans cheer the house down?? I'm willing to bet the guy will not only compete in Sochi but he will also take home another medal to add to the hundreds he already has. Chan or no Chan....

ciocio
04-25-2011, 06:50 PM
Whyever would Plushenko need a "consolation" prize? Because after being out of the action for nearly 4 years, he "only" came in 2nd in the Olympics after losing by literally a hair? because he "only" won the European Championships a month before the Olympics? Because everywhere he goes to perform his fans cheer the house down?? I'm willing to bet the guy will not only compete in Sochi but he will also take home another medal to add to the hundreds he already has. Chan or no Chan....

Probably the poster was suggesting it's a consolation prize because he is ineligible and can't compete in ISU events. ISU thought how sad poor Plushy might be and created this competition especially for him. :plush:
They were afraid Plushy could commit a desperate act like cutting his mullet or having a nose job!!! ;):plush:

5Ali3
04-25-2011, 07:55 PM
The USFS rulebook says 16 for senior, but there are 19 pictured in the champions banner. My guess is the extra 3 account for skaters who did the short, but not the long, or vice versus.

Alternates who are listed on the official roster receive medals and are included in official team photos, regardless of whether they are one of the 16 skaters on the ice for either the short or the long.

I have also heard that the inclusion of synchro in the Olympics is very unlikely in the short-term, because of the number of athletes involved. Over the past 20 years, the number of athletes on the ice at the senior level has dropped (currently 16), in part because of the IOC's reluctance to add athletes to the Games. The last proposal that I heard was top five countries from the previous year's Worlds (not top five teams, but top five countries, one entry per country) to keep the number of athletes under 100.

In addition, ice time is at a premium, as speed skating keeps adding more events, and synchro is fairly ice-time-intensive. (It's also awful for ice quality! It would be a challenge to put synchro in the same facility as short-track and S/P/D for practice and competition, and keep the ice in Olympic-quality shape. It's certainly possible, but it's enough of an issue that it needs to be considered.)

I wouldn't be surprised if synchro is eventually added to the Games, but I would be very surprised if it happens any time soon - or while a speedskater is head of ISU.

Ziggy
04-25-2011, 08:53 PM
Considering they don't want to raise the number of athletes at the games, there is no way that's going to happen.

Thanks, I didn't realise that.

I guess it means the chances of Synchro entering Olympics is pretty much zilch. :/

Skittl1321
04-25-2011, 09:08 PM
Alternates who are listed on the official roster receive medals and are included in official team photos, regardless of whether they are one of the 16 skaters on the ice for either the short or the long.


Thank you. I was thinking it was like swimming- where the alternate has to swim one of the rounds to get the medal.


I know that USFS allows some levels (adults) to have teams as small as 8. I'd rather see synchro stay out of the Olympics than elite skating drop that low. The HUGE teams of the 90s are just so amazing to watch- even though the eliminates the smaller teams are doing now are pretty amazing. The actual synchronization and things like pinwheels were just WOW then.

Susan M
04-25-2011, 09:15 PM
I have also heard that the inclusion of synchro in the Olympics is very unlikely in the short-term, because of the number of athletes involved.
I think there are lots of things working against adding synchro. In addition to the overwhelming number of athletes, it would probably create a need for an additional ice practice facility and maybe even a third ice venue. As it is, one ice sheet is pretty much occupied by hockey and the other by figure skating and short track. I think addition of the team event must pretty much consume whatever open ice time remained, reducing the chances of adding synchro.

The only way they could add synchro is by holding some preliminary qualifying rounds elsewhere to produce a small field for the Olympic event, as they currently do for the team sports in the summer Olympics. How many teams skate on one ice make? Could they get in maybe 2 flights of 4 teams each?

hydro
04-26-2011, 03:44 AM
The Japanese (federation, TV stations, skaters) might also love the idea of a Pro-Am competition. Takahashi and Ando will retire sooner or later. Also Yuna and the South Korean TV stations etc. might also like the idea. They will definitely raise the bar.

A lot of skaters are still interested in competing, but don't want to commit to the lifestyle of an eligible skater anymore. I think they'd love to do it. It's a great way to keep them in competitions.

I agree. I think this is more future-proofing current eligibles than considering past champions.

I'm sure the ISU wants past champions, but the rules seem to be geared towards the next Olympic cycle. Start small, see if the idea works, then go from there.

oubik
04-26-2011, 08:30 AM
That is one good thing that can come out of this.

Federations like Japan and Korea might finally start investing money and resources in developing Pairs and Ice Dance programmes.

The problem is that if you only have 5 countries in the final, those places are going to pretty much go by default to powerhouses like USA, Canada, Russia, etc. so why bother? It would take many many years for other feds to get to that level. Is it worth the time and effort?

Well, for countries like Poland and Czech Republic this should mean more figure skaters at Olympics and more positive "feedback" including more money from the goverment, ask your friends at federation. Normally, it is even complicated to "politicking" all the skaters who won the quotas at Worlds or Nebelhorn to be finally nominated because the NOC rules are sometimes more strict to ISU (remember Israel, Germany, Austria, even Poland), but if the team have the sureness of Top 10 placement there would not have been any question marks from those NOCs.

And if you´re looking in Poland in the last two decades they should easily be inside the Worlds Top 10 teams even the nowadays reality is different.

Susan M
04-26-2011, 08:53 PM
Probably the poster was suggesting it's a consolation prize because he is ineligible and can't compete in ISU events. ISU thought how sad poor Plushy might be and created this competition especially for him. :plush:

But he won't need this event, because by next year he'll be competing as an eligible again. Right?