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antmanb
04-21-2011, 11:29 AM
If it's an ISU competition, then the ISU would set the rules and I can't see them promoting anything other than COP. I'm sure the ISU would rather die a painful death than bring out 6.0 again, even for this pro-am.

gkelly
04-21-2011, 04:15 PM
In theory, though, in the future once everyone is fully trained in skills needed to earn higher levels, a skater retired for 10 years might still be able to defeat a recent medalist who earned that medal on the strength of jump content. Depends what the rules are and how fit each of them is at 1 or 10 years after their medal(s).

Skittl1321
04-21-2011, 04:18 PM
I'd like to see them open it up to medalists (maybe even top 10? or 5?) of any ISU championship (4CC, Euros, GPF). The list is just way too small. Not all of them are going to want to do it.

Plus it leaves out a lot of my favorites... but I doubt it will be shown on any TV channel I get anyway. So it's moot.

Jaana
04-21-2011, 05:36 PM
I'd love to see a real pro am event again, and I hope Scott is able to arrange it. There are a lot of retired competitive skaters I'd love to see in "competition" again.



I have missed pro-am events and hope to see some old favourites competing in them!

Susan M
04-22-2011, 05:13 AM
If it gets skaters like Lambiel, Arakawa, Buttle, Weir, Cohen, Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze, Annissina & Peizerat, Delobel & Schoenfelder, etc, back in competition, I'm all for it.
Well, like Yagudin, after next year Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze and Annissina & Peizerat will also be outside the 10 year limit.


I mean, Kulik still has a 3A ffs.
I cannot recall the last time Kulik landed a 3A, but I know it's been years since the last time I saw or read about him landing one. It's even been years since I saw him do a program with an early 2A in a place where he could do a 3A if the rink was big enough. I do recall seeing 3F and 3Z in his most recent numbers, though, which probably has him ahead of Yagudin. We've also seen him do 3S in recent years, but I can't recall the last 3 loop, either.

Like others, I hope this is not just a forum for showing off SOI skaters, but that they make a real effort to attract the best available. I kind of like that they call for one event each in Asia, NA, and Europe. It kind of mitigates against a too heavily NA orientation. If they hope to sell the TV right to these events in other countries, then I think that pretty much guarantees it won't just be the casts of the US and Canadian SOI tours competing.


Maybe this pro competition could have divisions, based on retirement year from eligible skating? Heck, look at all of the excitement Midori Ito's apparent return to adult skating has caused.
I think you've hit on it!! What skating really needs is a seniors tour, like golf and tennis. Seriously, though, I kind of like the idea of a second event for people whose last medals were longer ago.


It'll be interesting if some separate, simplified system gets introduced for this event that eventually expands to all skating.
It sounded from the announcement like there will be some non-ISU content/scoring for the short programs. Maybe if this works, the ISU will let them make changes for the free skate portions as well. The ISU rulebook used to also include an "interpretive program" so maybe they can resurrect that. COP doesn't address how to score the interpretive program and, as I recall, even under 6.0 the judges were totally confused about how to rank them.


I'd like to see them open it up to medalists (maybe even top 10? or 5?) of any ISU championship (4CC, Euros, GPF). The list is just way too small. Not all of them are going to want to do it.
I am kind of sorry it leaves out the Kerrs. At least Faella-S got in under the wire.
I wonder what size fields they are planning for these events. They are clearly described as made-for-TV events, so it could be as few as 4-5 entrants per discipline. I wonder if they intend to feature the same skaters in all 3 or if the participants will change from place to place.

misskarne
04-22-2011, 05:48 AM
I cannot recall the last time Kulik landed a 3A, but I know it's been years since the last time I saw or read about him landing one. It's even been years since I saw him do a program with an early 2A in a place where he could do a 3A if the rink was big enough. I do recall seeing 3F and 3Z in his most recent numbers, though, which probably has him ahead of Yagudin. We've also seen him do 3S in recent years, but I can't recall the last 3 loop, either.

At my last count, Kulik is still doing in shows 3T, 3Lz, 3F and 3S. He took his 3A out of his show programs because he was having trouble with his consistency but the last time I can remember seeing him do one is 2009's Song for the King in Sth Korea. He is working on it in practice and apparently intends to put it back in his show programs shortly.

Regardless, he is still far and away a better skater than half the current circuit and always will be. The very fact that he still has so many triples at his age should be enough. His jump technique is just about flawless, and he's developed into an amazing artist.

Jaana
04-22-2011, 07:35 AM
I do HATE the fact that it's associated in any way with Scott Hamilton, which means high quality international skaters will probably get passed over for lower quality NA skaters. :blah:

:rolleyes: In the announcement it was mentioned that the events will be held in three different geographical locations (in principle one in Asia, one in Europe and one in NA). Because of that I really doubt that "higher quality" international skaters will get passed by "lower quality" NA skaters. Besides all the competitors have to be World or Olympic medalists, so lower quality does not apply to anyone.

Michael O'C
04-22-2011, 07:43 AM
As for the ten years limit, it says they "should be" medalists of the past ten years. This doesn't sound like there can't be any exceptions. We'll see. I don't think they'd turn down someone like Ilia Kulik should he choose to apply for participation.

There could be some wriggle room there. If the rule said "shall be" that would certainly mean that there was no room for discretion but should might not be as tight.

Dragonlady
04-22-2011, 10:26 AM
I do HATE the fact that it's associated in any way with Scott Hamilton, which means high quality international skaters will probably get passed over for lower quality NA skaters. :blah:

Considering that two of the Olympic Gold Medalists in 2010 were from North America, I would say that the North Americans can hold there own in that department, at the moment.

skatingfan26
04-22-2011, 12:19 PM
The Japanese (federation, TV stations, skaters) might also love the idea of a Pro-Am competition. Takahashi and Ando will retire sooner or later. Also Yuna and the South Korean TV stations etc. might also like the idea. They will definitely raise the bar.

A lot of skaters are still interested in competing, but don't want to commit to the lifestyle of an eligible skater anymore. I think they'd love to do it. It's a great way to keep them in competitions.

skatingfan26
04-22-2011, 12:21 PM
If you think about it:
I'd bet Lysacek, Plushenko and Takahashi would love to do it with Patrick Chan as eligible skater would make for a great re-match of the 2010 Olympics - would attract Japanese and US-American TV stations as well.

The same is true for ladies: Rochette, Yuna Kim and Mao Asada...

Especially the year(s) following an Olympics promises great re-matches with new (up-and-coming) skaters thrown in the mix.

Ziggy
04-25-2011, 12:53 AM
A pointless team event and more cheesefests, yay! :scream:

They should have added synchronised skating, instead.

Although I guess I should reserve judgement until detailed plans are presented.

The drop from 10 to 5 teams after the SP is extreme, though and I don't like it at all.

But then, it's obvious the plan is a nod to the few biggest feds who run the show.

Susan M
04-25-2011, 03:29 AM
The drop from 10 to 5 teams after the SP is extreme, though and I don't like it at all.

But then, it's obvious the plan is a nod to the few biggest feds who run the show.
I think that's a big part of my objection to the team event. It really needs to wait until there are more federations strong in all 4 disciplines.

My guess is the cut to 5 teams was done so each discipline needs only one warm-up group. I wonder if the finals will follow the individual discipline order (pairs-men-zamboni-dance-ladies) or if they will put both singles at the end.

julieann
04-25-2011, 03:40 AM
I think that's a big part of my objection to the team event. It really needs to wait until there are more federations strong in all 4 disciplines.

The federations won't become serious until they are forced to by the ISU/IOC to do so. If they want to hold a team event, why should some countries who are prepared have to wait because some countries haven't been ready in a disciplines?

Ziggy
04-25-2011, 11:54 AM
That is one good thing that can come out of this.

Federations like Japan and Korea might finally start investing money and resources in developing Pairs and Ice Dance programmes.

The problem is that if you only have 5 countries in the final, those places are going to pretty much go by default to powerhouses like USA, Canada, Russia, etc. so why bother? It would take many many years for other feds to get to that level. Is it worth the time and effort?