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View Full Version : Watching old tapes: today- mens fs Salt Lake City 2002



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SmallFairy
04-17-2011, 08:51 PM
*yawn* It's getting old. Methinks some people doth protest too much. Plushy obviously has a lot of closet fans.


Has it occurred to you that Plushenko and Yagudin just express their emotions differently? Yags wore his skating heart on his sleeve. There's nothing wrong with that. Plushy kept his skating heart close to his chest. There's nothing wrong with that, either. Yags' emotion and passion is very obvious. Plushenko's is more subtle. He shows passion and emotion by the intensity of his skating. His SLC LP is a great example of that - fearlessness, desperation, DETERMINATION. He knew he had nothing to lose and went full throttle. Did it work? No. Was it great to watch? HELL YES.



I feel absolutely distraught for Sasha here. He was such a beautiful elegant skater and I really think he should have medalled here. His LP wasn't even that much of a disaster really. Unfortunately, I don't think the ISU/judges could handle the thought of a Russian 1-2-3 on American soil...

Thank you, you described both Yagudin and Plushenko perfectly! I was never a fan of Plush, in fact, his style drove me nuts, but I could never object to all the things you mentioned, and one had to admire them.

I will never get over the fact that Sasha didn't medal, though with his reputation, hell would have to freeze over before it happened. The judges never liked him, and were never going to give him the marks he deserved.
At Euros in Lausanne just a month before the olympics, he was the clear winner, skating flawless in qualifying, sp and lp, while Yagudin made several mistakes in his lp, f.i. failing to land his 3loop cleanly despite several attempts. I was there in the rink that night, and the entire audience was sure Sasha had won, it was electric, and I remember I thought: finally! Finally he gets the recognition he deserves.
Clearly, the judges thought otherwise, it was a 3-6 decision, if I remember correctly. I'll never get over it, it was politicing at it's worst. They had made up their mind, Sasha should never win anything. Period.

In Salt Lake, he skated SO WELL in the sp, and still he was placed behind Plush, who fell.
In the fs he unfortunately made a few mistakes, and I can understand the fact that he didn't medal, considering how well Goebel skated, but come on, the Finnish judge wanted Sahsa in tenth place:confused::confused::confused: what was that??

(and at worlds a month later...the judges gave his bronze medal to Honda:yikes: it's a wonder I am still alive!!)

Holley Calmes
04-17-2011, 09:04 PM
I am also a huge fan of Abt, but I don't know all the politics. He was definitely my second favorite behind Yagudin-I was there in person, and his LP was exquisite. Just gorgeous. I also loved Honda's program, mistakes and all. I would have them Yagudin, Abt, Plushenko just based on my own personal response...which is definitely NOT how they do things! :lol:

But anyway-why the Abt-hate from the judges?

casken
04-17-2011, 10:05 PM
But anyway-why the Abt-hate from the judges?

He had every single jump crammed into the corners of the rink, even the easiest ones like the toe and sal.

The end of the program was just him skating back and forth between each corner of the rink doing jumps. He was going to get knocked for program construction.

Having said that, he was probably the most superior overall skater there, or at least in the final group.

Holley Calmes
04-17-2011, 11:24 PM
He was beautiful-both as a skater and as a very handsome guy. I had a huge crush.

Where is he now?

orbitz
04-17-2011, 11:55 PM
But anyway-why the Abt-hate from the judges?

Not just from the judges. Remember when Abt was in the K&C with his coach at SLC after his free skate, and the only person the NBC cameras and commentators could focus on for those minutes was a shot of Tim Goeble standing at the barrier waiting to hear the scores :lol:? Poor Abt; He was like the Rodney Dangerfield of male figure skating.


I wonder what happened to Tim's 3A and quads after 2003? I wasn't like he lost those jumps, because he grew hips and breasts.

misskarne
04-18-2011, 01:26 AM
I am also a huge fan of Abt, but I don't know all the politics. He was definitely my second favorite behind Yagudin-I was there in person, and his LP was exquisite. Just gorgeous. I also loved Honda's program, mistakes and all. I would have them Yagudin, Abt, Plushenko just based on my own personal response...which is definitely NOT how they do things! :lol:

But anyway-why the Abt-hate from the judges?

I think, while quite a lot of it was the "reputation judging" and his perceived inconsistency, I also think the incentive for the judges NOT to have an all-Russian podium was quite strong. Can you imagine how that would have looked - all three Russians on the podium on AMERICAN soil. There was no way it was going to be allowed to happen. Especially not after the pairs competition with the anti-Russia sentiment being so strong.

DickButtonFan
04-18-2011, 02:06 AM
Tim did 3 quads, he deserved the bronze IMO. Sash was a great skater but I agree he just skated from one side of the rink to the other and he fell on the quad.

Zokko!
04-18-2011, 06:20 AM
I think, while quite a lot of it was the "reputation judging" and his perceived inconsistency, I also think the incentive for the judges NOT to have an all-Russian podium was quite strong. Can you imagine how that would have looked - all three Russians on the podium on AMERICAN soil. There was no way it was going to be allowed to happen. Especially not after the pairs competition with the anti-Russia sentiment being so strong.

While your explanation is somewhat plausible, I have to disagree. I'm certainly not a fan of Timothy Goebel and his skating "style" but he deserved his Bronze medal. He had the competition of his his life.

SmallFairy
04-18-2011, 07:37 AM
As I already stated earlier, I agree Tim deserved the bronze in Salt Lake, looking at how it was skated. Sasha made mistakes, and though he was judged too low in the sp, the fs I cannot argue about.

It was not just at this event that Sasha didn't get the marks he deserved though. I think it had to do with his reputation; being the third Russian, who had a history of being inconsitant, having trouble making the Russian team, not landing the quad constitantly until 2002, not showing good results over time, as he was bouncing in and out of int competetitions, because of all the injuries he had....
His path to sucsess didn't excactly go straight uphill, it looked more like a one of those curves that measures your heart rythm, it's a miracle he held out all those years after all...
His style was also a bit different, but his basic and elements, when done cleanly, was absolutely gorgeous, I could watch him do crossovers all day long. An his camel were he bends over...awwww

I see your point about him skating back and forth in the rink, doing jumps in the corner...but for some reason, in his Rach program, it didn't bother me one bit, that program was still so beautiful, and fitted him perfectly. (btw his 3a was not done in the corners;) )

Marco
04-18-2011, 11:26 AM
He had every single jump crammed into the corners of the rink, even the easiest ones like the toe and sal.

The end of the program was just him skating back and forth between each corner of the rink doing jumps. He was going to get knocked for program construction.

Having said that, he was probably the most superior overall skater there, or at least in the final group.

That bugged me, but it was also a problem for most skaters. At least Abt had the ice coverage and the basics.

Quad or no quad, and based on the sp as well, I think I would prefer Honda and Abt ahead of Goebel for the bronze based on their vast difference in presentation. But it was obvious that Russia spent all their vokda to ensure top two for Yagudin and Plushenko and there was none left for Abt. And with Eldredge and Weiss out of medal contention, it was only fair that USFS placed all their pie on Goebel to ensure he gets a medal at home.

briancoogaert
04-18-2011, 12:05 PM
Tim did 3 quads, he deserved the bronze IMO. Sash was a great skater but I agree he just skated from one side of the rink to the other and he fell on the quad.
Plus, he is often on two feet. ;)

brad640
04-18-2011, 02:13 PM
Plushy's choreography I don't like, but his presence and command of the ice is marvelous, and the jumps-wow again! his 3a-3f is one of a kind!

That combination is what I remeber most about his program. Has that ever been attempted before or since?

robinhood
04-18-2011, 03:01 PM
I really love Yagudin, but for me that performance of MITIM wasn't him giving his 100%, and I'm not talking about watering down the technical difficulty (2 quads and his gigantic 3a is still totally amazing...). For me that program never had much choreographic content nor I sensed a very soulful performance by Alexei.
My favorite program of his, apart from Gladiator, was the obscure Broken Arrow program. That was Tarasova at her best: dark, intense and powerful as only Yagudin could deliver.
Don't get me wrong, he totally deserved the Gold Medal but I'll always associate that music to A/P 99 free dance...and Honda skated better to it, too imho:dog:

misskarne
04-18-2011, 03:23 PM
That combination is what I remeber most about his program. Has that ever been attempted before or since?

Not that I'm aware of. It's absolutely amazing and I'd love to see him do it again, just to watch the commentators **** their pants again! :lol::rofl:



But it was obvious that Russia spent all their vokda to ensure top two for Yagudin and Plushenko and there was none left for Abt.

Hardly. Russia didn't need to do anything to ensure Yagudin and Plushenko were top two. Those two were the BEST in the world at that point in time - no-one can deny that. No-one else was going to come close. Unless a major disaster happened, they were always going to be first and second; the question was only in which order. Russia could have spared some vodka for Sasha, I'm sure.

My theory goes like this - if Sasha had been scored fairly in the SP, he should have been second or third. Then he would have been under less pressure in the LP and less likely to muff it. That's just my thinking. Whatever, I'm sure everyone agrees on one thing: in the SP, Sasha was really robbed.

DickButtonFan
04-18-2011, 03:34 PM
I really love Yagudin, but for me that performance of MITIM wasn't him giving his 100%, and I'm not talking about watering down the technical difficulty (2 quads and his gigantic 3a is still totally amazing...). For me that program never had much choreographic content nor I sensed a very soulful performance by Alexei.
My favorite program of his, apart from Gladiator, was the obscure Broken Arrow program. That was Tarasova at her best: dark, intense and powerful as only Yagudin could deliver.
Don't get me wrong, he totally deserved the Gold Medal but I'll always associate that music to A/P 99 free dance...and Honda skated better to it, too imho:dog:

I liked broken arrow better too, I saw him perform it in person, it is one of the most beautiful programs. I think his best lp is gladiator, then broken arrow, tosca, then MITIM. But as far as his winter sp, I find that to be the best mens sp ever. Funny as I think the best sp ever was also done at salt lake by MK but her nagano version was better IMO.