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View Full Version : Watching old tapes: today mens sp Salt Lake City 2002



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VIETgrlTerifa
04-19-2011, 05:10 AM
Jesus Christ...

Zokko!
04-19-2011, 11:02 AM
Jesus Christ...Never heard of him. Does he have a quad? :slinkaway

senorita
04-19-2011, 11:13 AM
^ not this week.:cool:


Say all you want, but I just don't get all the Lysacek hate.

I dont hate Lysacek, I dont get his skating at all interesting (except for carmen Olympics 2006) but I dont hate him. HE didnt kill my dog. I just found the comment of him compared to Kulik''s 1998 program a little (A LOT) > :cold:
It was like comparing Yagudin's programs to KVDP 's. And I love KVDP btw!
Anyway, to each their own.

kwanette
04-19-2011, 11:31 AM
Kulik's jumps were like butter.I just rewatched it..and besides jumps, I didn't see anything else..Now I will :slinkaway

briancoogaert
04-19-2011, 11:51 AM
Kulik's jumps were like butter.I just rewatched it..and besides jumps, I didn't see anything else..Now I will :slinkaway
You are right.
He was really concentrated on his jumps. I guess that his performance at the 1997 Worlds was in his mind.

Marco
04-19-2011, 02:08 PM
The thing that stuck in my mind was Kulik's circular steps.

kwanette
04-19-2011, 02:35 PM
The thing that stuck in my mind was Kulik's circular steps.

I think that I missed them..

blue_idealist
04-19-2011, 03:30 PM
I will watch Kulik's 1998 performance again as it has been awhile since I've seen it. However, I may still maintain that Lysacek's was equally as good.

blue_idealist
04-19-2011, 03:44 PM
Well, I watched Ilia's 1998 LP and Evan's 2010 LP back to back and I still see no difference between the quality of the two performances. I think some people just like to rag on Evan.

shine
04-19-2011, 04:15 PM
Well, I watched Ilia's 1998 LP and Evan's 2010 LP back to back and I still see no difference between the quality of the two performances. I think some people just like to rag on Evan.
I loved Kulik's SP from 1997. Not so much the one in 1998.

Perhaps not really evident in this SP, but overall I think he was much better overall skater than Evan.

Fandango
04-19-2011, 06:38 PM
May the hairsplitting go on, but it tells a lot about the recent "Olympic Champion", if at least 5 (five!) of his predecessors (plus a few entire Olympic podiums!) would've beaten him easily. :shuffle:

gkelly
04-19-2011, 07:27 PM
May the hairsplitting go on, but it tells a lot about the recent "Olympic Champion", if at least 5 (five!) of his predecessors (plus a few entire Olympic podiums!) would've beaten him easily. :shuffle:

But would the programs they skated in earlier years have beaten him easily under 2010 rules? All or most of their non-jump elements would have been level 1. Some of the jump passes and spins might not have counted. Fewer of their jumps would have earned the second-half bonus. GOEs on spins might have been an issue as well.

Even if they had a quad or two and/or comparable or better PCS, would those advantages necessarily have made up for points left on the table, either because of lack of skills or simply lack of foreseeing 2010 rules before they were written?

We can always say that talented athletes with strong competitive drive would have developed the necessarily skills to compete under different rules. But we never know exactly how they would have performed if they'd skated different programs under different conditions.

So we don't know that they would have beaten him easily by 2010 rules.

By the rules of their the Olympics that they themselves won? For those under 6.0 judging, you can say that you personally would have put Yagudin's or Kulik's or Boitano's programs ahead of Lysacek's and expect that many judges would have as well. But maybe 20th century judges would have been impressed enough by 21st century difficulty of the spins and steps to disagree. Or maybe politics would have had an effect in ways we can't anticipate.

Obviously Boitano would have beaten Lysacek (and Kulik, Yagudin, and Plushenko) easily under 1988 rules, with a full field of 1980s-trained skaters to mix up the factored placements, unless they could go back in time and change their training to include world class school figures.

blue_idealist
04-19-2011, 09:23 PM
May the hairsplitting go on, but it tells a lot about the recent "Olympic Champion", if at least 5 (five!) of his predecessors (plus a few entire Olympic podiums!) would've beaten him easily. :shuffle:

Which ENTIRE Olympic podiums could have beaten Evan? The only one I can think of is MAYBE 2002.

UGG
04-19-2011, 09:29 PM
May the hairsplitting go on, but it tells a lot about the recent "Olympic Champion", if at least 5 (five!) of his predecessors (plus a few entire Olympic podiums!) would've beaten him easily. :shuffle:

I think it tells a lot more about the other skaters in the competition who could not beat this mediocre dead beat...

Vagabond
04-19-2011, 09:51 PM
May the hairsplitting go on, but it tells a lot about the recent "Olympic Champion", if at least 5 (five!) of his predecessors (plus a few entire Olympic podiums!) would've beaten him easily. :shuffle:

Could you name them, please? And could you explain your answer?

I would assume that your list of predecessors includes the gold medalists with quads (Kulik, Yagudin, and Plushenko). Fine (even though two were under 6.0 and Plushenko might not have done quite so well under the 2010 version of CoP as applied by the judges in Vancouver).

I can even understand it if you add Boitano to that list. That still leaves one more.

Honestly, how can you rank Petrenko's 1992 LP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1edcCIy7Vw) or Urmanov's 1994 LP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ieGvGdfyeo) over Lysacek's 2010 Olympic LP?

Petrenko had a very tight landing on the second jump of his opening 3A+3T, doubled a planned 3R, and fell out of his solo 3T.

Urmanov did two 3A's, but the combo was only a 3A+2T. The other triple jump he did twice was just a 3T (one of which was a solo jump). He stepped out of his 3F.

Petrenko and Urmanov's spins, footwork, and jump entrances were all rudimentary compared to Lysacek's. And I would like to know how you compare these skaters' Presentation/PCS. Urmanov, in particular, seems very weak to me in this regard.

Earlier gold medalists didn't even attempt the 3A.

I'd also be interested to know which "entire Olympic podiums" other than 2002 you think Lysacek would have missed. The jumps in both of Candeloro's 1998 programs, Lambiel's 2002 SP, and both of Buttle's 2002 programs were not on a par with Lysacek's. His spins and footwork were a lot better than Candeloro's too.