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Marco
04-15-2011, 08:00 AM
Of course they had more time to work on the quads when they didn't have to work much on spins, steps and choreography. By 2003, Honda landed 3 quads at 4CCs but had crappy spins and no choreography in his program at all.

I think COP was introduced in an attempt to strike a balance between the sport and the art. Everyone has a different view as to what the ideal balance is, but it's true that every skater has had to work harder on all aspects of their skating to be competitive post-COP.

Fandango
04-15-2011, 10:31 AM
So, the "Olympic Champion" 2010 didn't do any quad, because the poor guy had to work too much on his absolutely unmatched choreography, gorgeous artistry/expression and unique style? :shuffle:

walei
04-15-2011, 10:36 AM
I enjoy Yag's Winter very much, but I have always wondered that back in 2002 were there any debates or even just minor discussions on the way the uses the snow on the ice as 'props'? I have always found that use questionable.

Jaana
04-15-2011, 10:51 AM
You don't think Yagudin skated more carefully in the Olympic LP? I'm no big fan of Scott Hamilton, but it made sense to me.

Yes, he was playing it safe very clearly. On the other hand his WC 2002 freeskate was better.

Jaana
04-15-2011, 10:53 AM
So, the "Olympic Champion" 2010 didn't do any quad, because the poor guy had to work too much on his absolutely unmatched choreography, gorgeous artistry/expression and unique style? :shuffle:

That poor guy unfortunately had to give up his quad because of injuries in various seasons.

Marco
04-15-2011, 12:05 PM
I enjoy Yag's Winter very much, but I have always wondered that back in 2002 were there any debates or even just minor discussions on the way the uses the snow on the ice as 'props'? I have always found that use questionable.

I wondered that, and also wondered whether his scrapping the ice would make it uneven for the skaters to come.

Marco
04-15-2011, 12:07 PM
So, the "Olympic Champion" 2010 didn't do any quad, because the poor guy had to work too much on his absolutely unmatched choreography, gorgeous artistry/expression and unique style? :shuffle:

Well, the quads that the "Olympic Champion" 2006 did in both 2006 and 2010 in exchange for total abandonment of choreography, artistry, expression, style and other non-jump elements, weren't so out-of-this-world either.

gkelly
04-15-2011, 12:59 PM
I wondered that, and also wondered whether his scrapping the ice would make it uneven for the skaters to come.

Nah, it's just a thin layer of snow, similar to that produced by most methods of stopping quickly. The toepick jumps, especially by senior men, do more damage to the ice. (blame those quads!) And ice dancers with their deep edges can make some pretty deep ruts. :mitchell:

Daria
04-15-2011, 03:31 PM
Well, the quads that the "Olympic Champion" 2006 did in both 2006 and 2010 in exchange for total abandonment of choreography, artistry, expression, style and other non-jump elements, weren't so out-of-this-world either.
This is an answer to fandango's post too, of course.

Come on. An Olympic champion is an Olympic champion and using quotation marks to show disdain for those skaters who weren't brilhant (under personal conceptions) is just disrespectful. Actually, I see similarities between Evan and Plushenko: both had problems with injuries before the games and skated "conservatives" but clean programs to win gold. All this sarcasm about who is a real worthy champion just put skaters effort in a trash can... Evan was not my favorite in Vancouver and Plushy's performance in 2006 was supbar, but they were unquestionable winners in their respective competitions.

antmanb
04-15-2011, 03:39 PM
Nah, it's just a thin layer of snow, similar to that produced by most methods of stopping quickly. The toepick jumps, especially by senior men, do more damage to the ice. (blame those quads!) And ice dancers with their deep edges can make some pretty deep ruts. :mitchell:

I've fallen into holes that a novice/junior level male skater has left all over the ice from double axel attempts. He really vaulted off the pick and twisted at the same time making huge chunks of ice fly out!

dinakt
04-15-2011, 04:51 PM
I enjoy Yag's Winter very much, but I have always wondered that back in 2002 were there any debates or even just minor discussions on the way the uses the snow on the ice as 'props'? I have always found that use questionable.

I've always loved that snow- throwing jesture. Brings a feeling of theatre and ease to the program, sets the mood; feels like a tribute to ice, to the rink.

Fandango
04-15-2011, 09:20 PM
Besides, it's not only that Lysacek didn't have any quads. If he had been an artistry and emotion master, I would have welcomed his gold over Plush's total lack of choreography. The problem is, he was neither a jumper, nor an artist. This is really not the kind of Olympic champ I wanna see after seing Yags - or even after seing Lambiel win silver in 2006.
Can't be written bold enough, thank you! :respec:


Well, the quads that the "Olympic Champion" 2006 did in both 2006 and 2010 in exchange for total abandonment of choreography, artistry, expression, style and other non-jump elements, weren't so out-of-this-world either.
Yep! But let's see:
Olympic Champion 2006: Two quads, not much else. At least the knowledge he's able to do better.
"Olympic Champion" 2010: Zilch, not much else.
Progress? Progress??? :confused: :(

No, I'm not a Plushenko-fan by any means. Looking back to Vancouver Olympics, I SO SO wished that other guy would've made it. One of those rare exemplars who actually had two real programs in his baggage, two programs he dared to interpret, with a lot of courage, enthusiasm and verve: Daisuke Takahashi, with- or without quad! :D

judgejudy27
04-15-2011, 10:26 PM
It's not fair to compare Evan Lysacek's performance in 2010 with Yagudin's in 2002 and say figure skating has suffered a downfall. Yagudin is one of the best male skaters EVER. I don't see Lysacek's performance as inferior to Kulik's in 1998, Urmanov's in 1994, or Petrenko's in 1992. Re: Plushenko's 2006 performance, sure it had more quads than Evan's, but there wasn't much emotion behind it. Maybe Evan isn't the best Olympic champion EVER, but that doesn't mean that figure skating's gone downhill or he didn't deserve the gold medal.

Yagudin in 2002, Kulik in 1998, and Plushenko in 2006 were all much better than Evan in 2010 and would have blown him out of the water under any scoring system. Plushenko in 2010 was about 55% the skater and even jumper he was in 2006 and still nearly beat Evan anyway. Petrenko and Urmanov were 12 and 14 years earlier so you cant really compare. Brian Boitano in 1988 though, a full 18 years earlier, was also clearly better, atleast in the LP segment.

Macassar88
04-15-2011, 10:49 PM
Scott didn't know the hell he was talking about that night. He made it seem like Yagudin left the door open for Plushenko with his performance in the LP. :confused:
Scott said that Yagudin was in danger of coming in 3rd...

Macassar88
04-15-2011, 10:52 PM
Yes, he was playing it safe very clearly. On the other hand his WC 2002 freeskate was better.

Neither was perfect, but I think that he had a better performance at the Olympics. His Winter was better at worlds though.