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Vagabond
04-21-2011, 07:06 AM
Your way of reasoning is truly something.
I like how you totally dismiss the marks given by the judges but use various opinions expressed here by fans more or less knowledgeable to justify your own opinions :lol:

As I've already said, the only marks that either Plushenko or Lysacek received that I strongly disagree with (in their respective OGM performances) are Plushenko's marks for Transitions, Choreography, and Interpretation. I disagree with them because of what I saw when I watched him skate, not because of what I read here.

The posts in the Archives to which I referred upthread were not opinions expressed by fans, but rather a categorization and tallying of Plushenko, Lambiel, Buttle, and Savoie's footstrokes based on a review of video recordings. These confirm what is obvious if you watch their programs: Plushenko relied a lot more on basic crossovers between elements than the other three did.

If you think that Plushenko should have earned a higher mark for Transitions (or for that matter Choreography or Interpretation) than Lambiel, Buttle, or Savoie, please explain why.

:watch:

reflect
04-21-2011, 07:25 AM
sorry for interrupting the discussion of 2006 plushenko and 2010 lysacek......i can't see the reason to make comparision between plushy, lambiel, buttle or savoie about the pcs. as ciocio mentioned, if Plushenko´s PCS should be corrected to 5, somebody can do the same with Lysacek´s PCS.

so why not just comparing 2006 plushy and 2010 lysacek's program, which will be more clear and direct. come on guys! for example. as my opinion, 2006 plushy's sp should be 80 and lp 150; 2010 lysacek's sp should be 78 and lp 152......frankly speaking, i don't mind who will win and i carefully make the total score equal :p

Marco
04-21-2011, 07:36 AM
Elvis Stojko went for broke in 1994 but came short to Alexei Urmanov.

I am sure he intended to, but he didn't have a quad and everything about his skating is inferior to Urmanov.

theshrew
04-21-2011, 09:07 AM
The posts in the Archives to which I referred upthread were not opinions expressed by fans, but rather a categorization and tallying of Plushenko, Lambiel, Buttle, and Savoie's footstrokes based on a review of video recordings.

Based on a review of video recordings, I say that Timothy Goebel had more transitions than both Plushenko and Yagudin. Also Goebel had the most difficult jumps. Also he had difficult entrances into his jumps (unlike Plushenko and Yagudin). Also his spins and step sequences were as difficult as those executed by Yagudin and Plushenko.
All the above affirmations are easy to prove since I watched the video recordings, counted and categorized.
Do they tell the whole story?
Now watch the programs and tell us who are the better skaters and why :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQXiiknXAH8 – Goebel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhIiisXRBys – Plushenko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UFHvSWmY0c&feature=related _ Yagudin

Holley Calmes
04-21-2011, 01:00 PM
Be that as it may, Tim, bless his heart, was one of the most inartistic skaters I've ever seen at that level. His use of his arms and hands was awkward to the point of distraction. Maybe that's just me, but the overall effect was of something that has just not ever come together. I'll give him the jumps and transitions all day long. But do I ever pull up his programs to watch for fun? Nope. I am no techie, just a fan. I might be totally wrong in many ways, but his use of his arms just drove me crazy. I guess I'm too used to watching dancers, but other male skaters seem to use their arms beautifully. Plushenko has magnificent use of his arms. Lambiel. Tim seemed like a sweet kid, though. Loved his hair. Just not his arms. Penguin arms.

gkelly
04-21-2011, 01:16 PM
[Stojko in 1994]

I am sure he intended to, but he didn't have a quad and everything about his skating is inferior to Urmanov.

He actually had a quad-triple in the warmup, but when he popped the intended triple axel combination at the beginning of the program, he chose to leave out the quad and replace it with a triple axel-triple toe, which was probably a wise decision in terms of staying in the top 2 for the freeskate (which he barely did) but might have been interpreted by some judges as not going for broke.

Certainly his 3F and his spins were better than Urmanov's on that particular day, and the fact of doing the 3A+3T. Most other aspects were in Urmanov's favor.

UGG
04-22-2011, 06:44 PM
No one in 2010 had "The Olympic Gold Medal Skate of their Life" in the men's competition. Evan's program was, IMO, a very acceptable podium worthy performance but it was beatable. Not his fault that his competition either did not complete planned elements, or that others phoned it in. I often wonder if any other skater had won without a quad if there would be this much drama about the whole thing.

briancoogaert
04-22-2011, 07:57 PM
Abbott has "it"? That's new to me. I admit he's far more talented than Lysacek, but "it"??? I've always find him rather boring ... :shuffle:
His 2008 4CC LP (waltz cuts) is absolutely fabulous, and not boring, IMO. It's a good example of what Jeremy is capable of !

ZuZu
04-22-2011, 08:06 PM
No one in 2010 had "The Olympic Gold Medal Skate of their Life" in the men's competition. Evan's program was, IMO, a very acceptable podium worthy performance but it was beatable. Not his fault that his competition either did not complete planned elements, or that others phoned it in. I often wonder if any other skater had won without a quad if there would be this much drama about the whole thing.Right, not many people would've complained if, let's say, Takahashi would've won without a quad. And I don't think it's so hard to guess why! :shuffle:

Holley Calmes
04-22-2011, 08:29 PM
Right, not many people would've complained if, let's say, Takahashi would've won without a quad. And I don't think it's so hard to guess why! :shuffle:

I'd like to know why. I've never understood the intensity of emotion some have against Evan. I'm clueless...:lol: So do tell!

ZuZu
04-22-2011, 08:35 PM
I'd like to know why. I've never understood the intensity of emotion some have against Evan. I'm clueless...:lol: So do tell!
Nothing to tell. Take your time, watch Takahashi!!! And then watch Lysacek. Is it really sooo hard? :lol:

Holley Calmes
04-22-2011, 09:00 PM
Sorry! I misunderstood you....I love Dai to pieces and totally know what you're saying.

Brain burp.

attyfan
04-22-2011, 09:24 PM
Nothing to tell. Take your time, watch Takahashi!!! And then watch Lysacek. Is it really sooo hard? :lol:

To understand the Evan hate? IMO, yes. Watching Takahashi and watching Evan provide good grounds to hate the judges (or maybe, to hate certain aspects of the CoP), but not to hate Evan. Evan only did his best; it isn't his fault that Dai was underscored.

shine
04-22-2011, 10:30 PM
His 2008 4CC LP (waltz cuts) is absolutely fabulous, and not boring, IMO. It's a good example of what Jeremy is capable of !
That's still my favourite program of his. The one that made me fall in love with his skating. His other programs have been excellent since, but this program was just so intuitive and really flowed.

blue_idealist
04-22-2011, 10:43 PM
Right, not many people would've complained if, let's say, Takahashi would've won without a quad. And I don't think it's so hard to guess why! :shuffle:

I think Plushenko would still have complained, haha.