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minignome
04-06-2011, 11:22 PM
Contenders with podium chances in the invidiual and waaay more prestigious events of course. We will never know , but if this team event would have taken place in Vancouver for example, Im willing to bet my money some skaters like V&M or Mao Asada and probably Lysacek too would have passed on the team competition.

Or they could have jumped at the chance to come home with 2 OGMs.

julieann
04-06-2011, 11:25 PM
Contenders with podium chances in the invidiual and waaay more prestigious events of course. We will never know , but if this team event would have taken place in Vancouver for example, Im willing to bet my money some skaters like V&M or Mao Asada and probably Lysacek too would have passed on the team competition.

With Pushy and Kim breathing down thier necks they would have jumped at more chances to medal. S/Z were second in the free and were 3.26 points from losing another gold. I'm sure they would have been more than happy with a team competition; so I wouldn't be so quick to count on them passing.

itsartemis
04-06-2011, 11:30 PM
I would rather watch a PURE TRADITIONAL winter sporting event like nordic or biathlon than a skating cheesefest.
You're kidding, right? I don't think you even know what pure Nordic or biathlon events were.

In the good old days - all the cross country skiers went into the woods and the spectators or TV audience did not see them for 1, 2 or 3 hours. Didn't make for great television by today's standards. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8trjTH4lS4):D It has developed massively over the years and now they "skate" part of the distances (thanks to American Bill Koch), they have mass start and sprint. Many countries (including the purist from my country) voted against these changes because they were very much against the sport developing into something that was not traditional. The outcry was massive here, yet FIS and IOC welcomed the changes and new disciplines and now everybody loves it.

New disciplines will always be disliked by some and celebrated by others. Time will tell if they continue to be Olympic events.

Mendi
04-06-2011, 11:32 PM
As a skater, I'm not a fan of the idea. :/

And for those who say they do run throughs every day in practice anyway, it isn't that simple. Competition is an entire process, and a draining one, emotionally and physically. Combined with the importance of peaking at the right time, I'd be nervous - and let's be honest, would you rather peak for the team competition or for an individual gold medal?

Look at how many skaters have issues @ Worlds because they're tired after the Olympics -- and that's with a month to recoup.

Copper
04-06-2011, 11:33 PM
I think it is premature to inaugurate the team event. There are three medals and four teams to compete. Can't imagine how the 4th placed team would feel after the event.

smartblade
04-06-2011, 11:36 PM
I don't know. An Olympic medal is an Olympic medal.

And I'm not buying the whole "skaters will be too tired to do both" argument either. They have to run their programs every day anyway. Gymnasts and swimmers have to be at peak every day too.


I totally agree... And i'm sure that there are some skaters that just missed the podium that would've loved another chance at a medal.

Visaliakid
04-06-2011, 11:38 PM
More from Phil's latest blog...

*Five countries will be eliminated after the short program.
*Each country advancing to the long program can make two lineup substitutions from a pool including all the skaters qualified for the four individual Olympic events and the official substitutes. Making the subs eligible would be of special significance to countries with only one entry in an individual discipline, should that skater or couple become ill or injured. But the official substitutes would not be living in the Olympic Village, and Sochi is not easy to reach at the 11th hour, so countries thinking of using a sub would need to find the subs alternate housing in the Olympic city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elanor
... This will greatly cheapen and devalue the Olympic medals in figure skating ....

Those skaters winning medals in the Team event in Sochi sure as hell won't think their medals are cheapened in any way. This is strictly a fan's thinking. :rofl:

manleywoman
04-06-2011, 11:40 PM
As a skater, I'm not a fan of the idea. :/

And for those who say they do run throughs every day in practice anyway, it isn't that simple. Competition is an entire process, and a draining one, emotionally and physically. Combined with the importance of peaking at the right time, I'd be nervous - and let's be honest, would you rather peak for the team competition or for an individual gold medal?
.

Ask Nastia Lukin.

jlai
04-06-2011, 11:45 PM
let's be honest, would you rather peak for the team competition or for an individual gold medal?
.

I think Team China (may be not Yang Wei) may have a different answer from Liukin. :)

Gold is gold, imho

SamuraiK
04-07-2011, 12:00 AM
So as an exercise and just for fun and comparison purpose.. I adde up the scores from the "teams" in Vancouver with these results:

CAN
Chan 241.42
Rochette 202.64
Dube/Davison 187.11
Virtue/Moir 221.57
Total 852.74

RUS
Plushenko 256.36
Makarova 171.91
Kavaguti/Smirnov 194.77
Domnina/Shabalin 207.64
Total 830.68

USA
Abbott 218.96
Flatt 182.49
Denney/Barrett 158.33
Davis/White 215.74
Total 775.52

ITA
Contesti 187.50
Kostner 151.90
DellaMonica/Kocon 161.60
Faiella/Scali 199.17
Total 700.17

GER
Lindemann 171.98
Hecken 143.94
Savchenko/Szolkowy 210.60
Beier/Beier 149.64
Total 676.16

Note: JPN, CHN and FRA didnt have representaion in all categories.

It's very tricky in the case of USA because 3 of their national champs were beaten by their teammates but since this competition is supposed to take place before the individual events, we can assume the champs would have been the ones selected.

Im already imagining all the :drama: and :scream: that skaters so beloved here like Chan or Flatt would have caused by being olympic medalists..:lol:

minignome
04-07-2011, 12:01 AM
Competition is an entire process, and a draining one, emotionally and physically. Combined with the importance of peaking at the right time, I'd be nervous - and let's be honest, would you rather peak for the team competition or for an individual gold medal?

Look at how many skaters have issues @ Worlds because they're tired after the Olympics -- and that's with a month to recoup.

Athletes in other sports have learned to do it -- skiers, speed skaters, short track have multiple competitions and can managed to stay at their highest levels throughout the Olympics. It may take a bit of time for figure skaters to learn, but they ARE athletes.

I would think there is a big difference between trying to peak and stay at the top of your game for 4 days during a 2 week period when you are in the Olympic atmosphere vs. peaking for the Olympics, going home to your daily life and then trying to peak 6 weeks later for the worlds.

Japanfan
04-07-2011, 01:17 AM
This will greatly cheapen and devalue the Olympic medals in figure skating when anybody who can skate at the world level competition and has the right citizenship can get it, not only the best skaters of the hardest event.

ITA. The team's with the strongest individual skaters will have an advantage. Since the scoring is cumulative it is still pretty much an individual challenge. If there are two incredibly strong competitors/pairs a weaker skater will get an Olympic medal. For example, if Patrick Chan and M/MT skate great and score high, Amelie Lacoste could skate poorly and still win an Olympic medal. That's just wrong.

It's also demanding for the skaters to have to skate their programs twice rather once. . .not to mention, the Olympics is already too big and too expensive. Paring down is desirable, not adding more events.

cryosphere
04-07-2011, 01:34 AM
I must say I'm a little bit torn.

But then I have to say I feel really bad for the poor synchro skaters - why not giving them a chance to live their Olympic dream? I'm sure audiences all over the world (not necessarily FS fans - I for one do not like SS very much) could really like a spectacular sport like this.

Duh, I really don't know what to think about this...

ITA

Vagabond
04-07-2011, 01:36 AM
Phil Hersh's April 6 blog post on the subject (http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/sports_globetrotting/)


The figure skating team event will have six-skater teams: one man, one woman, one pair and one ice dancing couple. Points will be awarded to each skater/couple, and the total for all four disciplines will determine the winner.

There likely will be between eight and 12 countries in the competition.

In another post here last October, Cinquanta told me the team event would run the first three days of figure skatingt at the Olympics and gave these details on how the event would work. :

*Ten teams (one per country) will qualify, based on results from previous ISU events, with the qualifying system yet to be worked out.

*Each team will have a men's and women's singles skater, a pair and a dance team. (At the 2009 World Trophy, the first such competition, each country had two men's and women's singles skaters. one pair and once dance team.)

*Scoring will be cumulative.

*Five countries will be eliminated after the short program.

*Each country advancing to the long program can make two lineup substitutions from a pool including all the skaters qualified for the four individual Olympic events and the official substitutes. Making the subs eligible would be of special significance to countries with only one entry in an individual discipline, should that skater or couple become ill or injured. But the official substitutes would not be living in the Olympic Village, and Sochi is not easy to reach at the 11th hour, so countries thinking of using a sub would need to find the subs alternate housing in the Olympic city.

Here are a few reasons why I don't think this is workable:

First, barring some fluke results at 2013 Worlds and/or a wholesale revision of current Olympic qualifying rules, this is going to mean using some skaters who don't have entries to the non-team competition. It might be only about half a dozen, but the number could easily be closer to twenty. And yet we are told that the IOC doesn't want to increase the number of athletes.

Second, it appears that the various NOC's would have to pay the room, board, and travel expenses of substitutes (who might not get a chance to skate) and their coaches. I have my doubts whether any NOC's other than those that are likely to have at least two entries in every event anyway (i.e., Russia, Canada, and the U.S.) would go for this.

Third, various NOC's have their own qualification standards that are more rigorous than the IOC's, e.g., Germany, Switzerland, and Israel. These NOC's aren't going to be any more enthusiastic about sending second- or third-tier skaters to a team competition than they are about sending them to compete in the traditional events.

Fourth, if the team competition is at the end, there will probably be some added expenses for the NOC's in having the skaters who compete earliest and their coaches stick around, especially for the lower-finishing entries who don't get invited to that gala.

Fifth, figure skating and short track are going to be staged at the same venue. The proposed calendar submitted to the IOC as part of Sochi's bid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Winter_Olympics#Calendar) shows that it will be difficult to shoehorn a team competition into the schedule. The easiest thing to do would be to replace the gala with the Team Short Program and to have the Team Long Program on the same day as the closing ceremony, and probably at the same time as the men's ice hockey final and the men's 50 km. cross-country ski race. That is not an optimum time for attracting a television audience for figure skating. But the only obvious alternative would be to stage two figure skating events on the same day (e.g., the Men's LP and the Short Dance).

ETA:

Sixth, if, as it appears, having a team competition means there won't be a gala, then the ISU will be swapping an event that could have several Japanese and Korean skaters for one that won't have any. That means losing much of the audience in two large markets. And even most fans in Europe and North America would rather watch Yuna Kim and Takahiko Kozuka's exhibition programs than Stina Martini and Severin Kiefer's SP.

:shuffle:

Made4Dancin
04-07-2011, 01:45 AM
When I first heard of this idea I didn't understand that there would be a second competition. I thought they would just add the points up from the competitions that already happen. Yeah I know that doesn't make too much sense. But I didn't think they'd make the same competitors compete twice. I mean does that mean people will do the same programs or have four programs? I'm still confused.

Anyway I like the idea of element events. I don't know why they didn't do that. You'd get people attempting quintuple jumps for sure. :slinkaway

But I also would worry that this is about getting each country to only send one entrant (and an alternate?) in each discipline which someone mentioned earlier. That would totally suck. I mean they wouldn't probably do it by Sochi, but you could see how that would be the ultimate plan.