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GarrAarghHrumph
04-07-2011, 02:47 PM
Pissev's comments on the topic pretty much same as David Raith's above. He states that the event format is yet to be finalized.
http://www.sports.ru/others/figure-skating/89170135.html

I think the idea of being able to bring in different skaters for different components of the event is extremely intriguing. You could have one man skate the short program, and a different skate the long, and they're all contributing to the success of the team by adding their own strength to that team. Very cool.

GarrAarghHrumph
04-07-2011, 02:49 PM
If there were a Synchro event, that would be different. That would be a truly legit, new figure skating discipline. Yes, that would bring more athletes to the games...but aren't there already other "lotsa athletes" events, such as Hockey and Women's Hockey? Just saying.

There are, but as I said before, the Olys is 1) looking for ways to shrink the number of athletes, 2) looking for ways to shrink costs, not add them by having to have at least two additional ice surfaces, plus all that housing, and 3) trying to maintain some sort of gender equity; and since synchro is almost 100% women, that is not in its favor.

danceronice
04-07-2011, 03:17 PM
I remember during the pairs medal cermony after they put a medal on Aliona they went over to Robin and gave him a medal as well even though he fell. They didn't go over to him and say "You fell on your ass, so even though you are a team, you don't get one, only she does" :rofl:

Sorry, not the way it works in any sport.


Yeah, in dance, if one partner falls, you don't win. In equestrian if you fall off the horse, you don't win. (Even in the team events having a horse or rider go down will usually be enough to take the entire team out as it's considered a HUGE fault and either destroys your score or gets you DQ'd. In the eventing cross-country phase it is or soon will be a mandataory elimination if you fall--meaning you come off, you're disqualified from the entire event. Sucks for the reduced team who have to try to make the points up and usually can't, but that's how it goes when you've got a team.)

I am torn. I don't hate the idea of a team competition. I don't especially want to have to see the same programs I just saw AGAIN. (No, I don't find watching someone do the same floor routine or beam routine or vault they just did in the all-round particularly exciting, either.) If they were going to have different (maybe shorter/fewer requirements) programs, or different skaters....

I'm also divided on the tired-out thing. On the one hand I can see where that would make a tiring event even worse (competition is a lot more exhausting and stressful than just practicing at home, even when you enjoy it.) OTOH, it hasn't killed the gymnasts or equestrians (however in equestrian you do not always have the same rider/horse combos) or the track and field athletes.

It could work. It could be awful. I tend more towards awful, but not because the general idea is bad but because of all the people to make a difficult idea work, $peedy is not one who inspires deep confidence in me.

wonderlen
04-07-2011, 03:35 PM
It's not practically a bad idea because some country like CND, US. Russia and Japan have multiple skaters. And they said, they can substitue different skaters between SP and LP, so country like Japan and US can definietly let someone do a SP and another one do LP. SO itn't not really that much different, unless u only have one entry each for events.

wonderlen
04-07-2011, 03:37 PM
And I'm sure Uncle Sam wouldn't mind adding more medal to the tally. A medal is a medal.

smartblade
04-07-2011, 04:17 PM
[QUOTE=made_in_canada;3133604]I don't follow gymnastics so forgive my ignorance but are there only a few countries that can feasibly participate in the team competition for gymnastics? I know that certain countries tend to dominate but how big is the potential pool of competing nations? It just seems odd to me to have an event in which there really are a very limited amount of nations who can actually compete. QUOTE]

In the past pretty much, it was the USA, USSR, Romania and China

mind you the last oympiad was china domination (but it was in beijing, china dominated all sports)
NOW RUSSA, USA, CHINA, ROMANIA, FRANCE, BRAZIL, ITALY, ENGLAND, AUSTRALIA, JAPAN, GERMANY, CANADA, SOUTH KOREA, NORTH KOREA, UKRAINE, BELARUS, probably missed some.all trying to qualify a team into the olympics.

It takes time for a new events to develop and grow internationally all around. in some of these countries, in the past they only use to send out a individual athletes that are profficient at specific events, now they have developed teams with multiple athletes that are good at all events.

Like skating now some nations develop individual athletes good at certain events (KOREA, GER, CHINA, ITA, FRANCE) with a team idea why can't it develop so that these nations can have teams with multiple athletes good at all events!

minignome
04-07-2011, 04:46 PM
And I'm sure Uncle Sam wouldn't mind adding more medal to the tally. A medal is a medal.

Yes. For those lamenting the state of US pairs, if there is another shot at a gold and adding to the medal count, this may provide the incentive to the USOC to kick up some funding.

Frau Muller
04-07-2011, 06:50 PM
....trying to maintain some sort of gender equity; and since synchro is almost 100% women, that is not in its favor.

Synchro is a totally-unisex sport, like equestrian. No separate men's and women's categories or sets of medals. There's nothing keeping men from doing synchro.

a56
04-07-2011, 06:59 PM
Synchro is a totally-unisex sport, like equestrian. No separate men's and women's categories or sets of medals. There's nothing keeping men from doing synchro.
I wonder what the statistics are regarding how many male skaters are in synchro. I remember reading that Robin Szolkowy skated in a synchro team when he couldn't find a pairs partner. Maybe synchro is perceived as very, very feminine. I did notice that there are quite a few male synchro officials though (example: three out of the six members of the ISU synchro technical committee are male, including the chairman; and the referee of this year's synchro worlds is male).

minignome
04-07-2011, 07:43 PM
There are, but as I said before, the Olys is 1) looking for ways to shrink the number of athletes, 2) looking for ways to shrink costs, not add them by having to have at least two additional ice surfaces, plus all that housing, and 3) trying to maintain some sort of gender equity; and since synchro is almost 100% women, that is not in its favor.


If you look at the sports added in Sochi, it's all about return on investment for the host country. All the new sports use existing venues and only a small increase in the number of athletes participating. Assuming there are prelims and finals in each event you can sell 12 more sets of tickets (and figure skating at least is a big $$ ticket) for the cost of adding 100 or so athletes.

Frau Muller
04-07-2011, 07:59 PM
.... Maybe synchro is perceived as very, very feminine.....).

Wasn't ice hockey perceived of as very, very masculine? (It still is by many people. But 'girls hockey' seems to have become quite mainstream in some places.)

This is almost reverse sexism. In the 80s and 90s, the craze was to de-feminize women and bring them into 'butch team sports.' So why should there be a problem with the reverse action? Just sayin'.

Beefcake
04-07-2011, 08:18 PM
I'm not yet sure how I feel about this, overall, but Snarky Me is calling this Russia's first strike :bribe: toward assuring more medals at its home Olympics.

Olympic Gold Medals Tally Board (April 1, 2014): ;)
Michelle Kwan: 0
Brandon Mroz: 1

patinage
04-07-2011, 08:52 PM
Fifth, figure skating and short track are going to be staged at the same venue. The proposed calendar submitted to the IOC as part of Sochi's bid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Winter_Olympics#Calendar) shows that it will be difficult to shoehorn a team competition into the schedule.
This proposed calendar shows three segments for the dance event, which no longer holds true.

Here are two ways of squeezing in a team event while still giving Short Track the five days they need to run their events:

Scenario One: Team event at the end:

Day 2 - Pairs' Short
Day 3 - Short Track
Day 4 - Pairs' Free
Day 5 - Men's Short
Day 6 - Short Track
Day 7 - Men's Free
Day 8 - Short Dance
Day 9 - Short Track
Day 10 - Free Dance
Day 11 - Ladies' Short
Day 12 - Short Track
Day 13 - Ladies' Free
Day 14 - Team Short
Day 15 - Short Track
Day 16 - Team Free
Day 17 - Exhibition

This would be hardest on any ladies who competed in both individual and team events. Also, it would favour any country (e.g. JPN, USA, RUS) with sufficiently deep fields that they could enter a lady in the team event who didn't qualify for the ladies' individual event. (Yukari Nakano in 2010, for example.)

Scenario Two: Team event at the beginning:

Day 2 - Team Short
Day 3 - Short Track
Day 4 - Team Free
Day 5 - Pairs' Short
Day 6 - Short Track
Day 7 - Pairs' Free
Day 8 - Men's Short
Day 9 - Short Track
Day 10 - Men's Free
Day 11 - Short Dance
Day 12 - Short Track
Day 13 - Free Dance
Day 14 - Ladies' Short
Day 15 - Short Track
Day 16 - Ladies' Free
Day 17 - Exhibition

This would be hardest on any pairs who competed in both individual and team events. It would favour any country (e.g. RUS, CAN, maybe USA and CHN) with sufficiently deep fields that they could enter a pair in the team event who didn't qualify for the pairs' individual event. (Duhamel/Buntin in 2010, for example).

Of course, scenario 2 is going to be hard on any skater who has to compete both individual and team events, so I really, really hope the IOC goes with something like scenario 1.

Think of how many skaters came this close to qualifying for the Olympics in 2010: Nakano, D/B, Inoue/Baldwin, Weaver/Poje, Kevin Reynolds, etc. The team event might be a nice consolation prize for them. Not that that's an argument for the team event, but I don't think any of them would have turned down the opportunity!

Also, skaters like Joubert or Verner might have been happy to have an opportunity for an Olympic redemption skate in the team event (one more argument for having the team event at the end).

patinage
04-07-2011, 08:56 PM
I'm not yet sure how I feel about this, overall, but Snarky Me is calling this Russia's first strike :bribe: toward assuring more medals at its home Olympics.

Hey, if Canada can do it, why not the Russians . . . ;)


Olympic Gold Medals Tally Board (April 1, 2014): ;)
Michelle Kwan: 0
Brandon Mroz: 1

The Queen must return! This is her perfect opportunity!

minignome
04-07-2011, 09:17 PM
Wasn't ice hockey perceived of as very, very masculine? (It still is by many people. But 'girls hockey' seems to have become quite mainstream in some places.)

This is almost reverse sexism. In the 80s and 90s, the craze was to de-feminize women and bring them into 'butch team sports.' So why should there be a problem with the reverse action? Just sayin'.

I don't think it's so much gender equality as return on investment that is keeping synchro out. If you allow 20 teams that is around 400 additional athletes/coaches/judges to house for close to 3 weeks for an opportunity to sell the arena 2 more times. I don't know how it is in other countries, but I've never seen synchro on tv here in the US. So even though it's figure skating, I would not think they would be able to charge the high dollar amounts that they charge for other figure skating comps.