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shah
04-06-2011, 07:53 PM
This sequence is for brother-sister teams...

:lol:

chipso1
04-06-2011, 11:59 PM
:cheer: for the not touching CiSS! Something new, eh?

sailornyanko
04-07-2011, 03:23 AM
No news on whether they will finally remove the copy & paste spiral sequences that have plagued ladies LP's for almost 10 years??? I'm sick of having to see them.

Will the Ina Bauer and Spread Eagle get a GOP score? Will the COP award bonus points to the few skaters that can actually do opposite direction jumps the way they currently award opposite spins? Heck, will the Walley and Toe Walley be counted as real jumps and be given a difficulty score?

Ziggy
04-07-2011, 04:55 AM
No news on whether they will finally remove the copy & paste spiral sequences that have plagued ladies LP's for almost 10 years??? I'm sick of having to see them.

Will the Ina Bauer and Spread Eagle get a GOP score? Will the COP award bonus points to the few skaters that can actually do opposite direction jumps the way they currently award opposite spins? Heck, will the Walley and Toe Walley be counted as real jumps and be given a difficulty score?

Spiral sequences have been changed already. Didn't you notice?

As for the other questions, the answer is a resounding NO to all of them.

Opposite direction jumps definitely should be rewarded. But some jumps have to remain non-listed so they can be used as transitions, especially in sequences.

Aussie Willy
04-07-2011, 06:22 AM
No news on whether they will finally remove the copy & paste spiral sequences that have plagued ladies LP's for almost 10 years??? I'm sick of having to see them.


I think it is amazing they have come up with the dance stuff now after the delays last season.

Plus I am sure they have had bigger things to worry about - like Worlds.

HisWeirness
04-07-2011, 06:23 AM
The spiral sequence was removed from the Ladies SP for the 2010-11 season, and the spiral sequence in the free skate only receives + or - GOE, no levels.

I agree with AW that it is very good that the ISU has released the ice dance required elements already (in April). Last spring the ISU was able to release the free dance requirements (on May 4) before the 2010 ISU Congress, but the short dance requirements were not released until after the ISU Congress in June.

kwanfan1818
04-07-2011, 06:51 AM
But lets face it: anglo, nordic, slavic skaters suck big time at trying to carry the latin flow and portraying the hotness vibe that is required for these dances, they all end up looking horribly stiff and contrived.


Some of the hottest Latin dances I can remember were performed by Russian couples. Usova/Zhulin's and Grishuk/Platov's rhumbas are my favorites.
And Russian ballroom Latin dancers are :smokin:

I'm looking forward to Diva Nora!

HisWeirness
05-05-2011, 05:41 PM
Posted elsewhere today:
Link to ISU Communication 1672 (http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=2616): Amendments to the Scale of Values, Guidelines for Marking GOE and Levels, 2011-12

This communication supersedes ISU Communication 1611 (http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=1862) (2010-11 Season).

Side-by-side comparison of changes from 1611 to 1672 :COP:

Scale of Values
2T base value reduced from 1.4 to 1.3.
2S base value reduced from 1.4 to 1.3.

Level 2 step sequence increased from 2.3 to 2.6.
Positive GOE (+3,+2,+1) for Level 4 regular step sequences and Choreo Spirals and Choreo Step Sequences decreased from 3, 2, 1 points to 2.1, 1.4, 0.7 points.

Pairs throws:
2TTh base value reduced from 2.6 to 2.5.
2STh base value reduced from 2.6 to 2.5.
2LoTh base value reduced from 3.0 to 2.8.


GOE

Singles GOE Changes:
new -> Steps, does not correspond to the music: -1 to -2 :cheer:
Steps. listed jumps with more than half rev. included: -1 (listed is new, so I assume you can't do a half-loop in steps now, since half-loop is now a listed jump)

Spin, -2 to -3 GOE (must be minus) for less than required positions in the SP has been removed. Not meeting the positions requirement for spins with change of foot in the SP will make the spin have no level and no value now instead of reducing GOE. In the FS the same spin would be called Level 1. Spin combinations with change of foot in the SP and FS will be Level 1 if all three basic positions are not met.

Pairs GOE Changes:
Previously: Twists, lady not caught at the waist was -2, final GOE must be in the minuses
Now: Twists, lady not caught at the waist is -1 to -2 GOE, final GOE not restricted

Solo and Pairs Spin, -2 to -3 GOE (must be minus) for less than required positions in the SP has been removed. Not meeting the positions requirement will make the spin be called Level 1 instead of reducing GOE.

new -> Steps, does not correspond to the music: -1 to -2 :cheer:
Steps. listed jumps with more than half rev. included: -1


Levels features changes

Steps: the criteria to satisfy the use of upper body movements level feature in singles and pairs step sequences has been reduced from a combined total of 2/3 to 1/2 of the step sequence pattern.

Spins: clear change of edge feature now counts for layback and Biellmann positions as well.

Singles-only
Steps:
2 different combinations of 3 difficult turns quickly executed within the sequence (Feature #5). Previous requirement for #5 was "combination of difficult turns quickly executed in both directions, at least twice within the sequence."
* Two combinations of difficult turns are considered to be the same (i.e. NOT different) if they consist of the same turns done in the same order and on the same edges.
Difficult turns include rockers, counters, brackets, twizzles and loops (loops new for 2011-12).

Spins:
Flying entry spin variation now only counts as a feature to increase Level once per program (in the first spin where the feature is attempted). Normal flying camel entry does not count a a Level feature (but counts as an attempt at FCSp).

8 revolutions without change in position/foot/variation/edge can count as a feature only once per spin now, not "twice (if repeated on another foot)" as in 2010-11. [Feature #8].

Change of position backwards-sideways or reverse must be clear in the layback spin to meet Feature #9.

Pairs-only
Lifts:
Previous Feature #7 (landing variation) removed; now combined with Feature #1 (take-off variation). Seniors no longer can meet 2 level features with a difficult take-off + difficult landing in the same lift.

Feature #1 now is:
Seniors: difficult variation of the take-off and/or difficult landing variety
Juniors: Simple variation of the take-off and/or simple landing variety (each counts as a feature)

Simple landing: a different landing foot is not automatically considered a simple landing variety.
Difficult take-off: inside axel take-off in 5ALi and 5SLi is considered as a difficult take-off variation.

Pair Spins:
execution of 4 difficult variations (each variation of each partner counted separately) will result in 2 Level features independent on the order of these variations if at least 2 of these variations are executed in basic positions and each partner has at least 1 variation. (new requirement underlined)

Death Spirals:
Feature #1 (Difficult entry and/or exit): Difficult entry to a death spiral should be on the curve and on the leg of the death spiral and while acquiring the actual death spiral position there should be a continuous and not too prolonged movement to this position.

If during the Death Spiral Lady’s head never reaches the level of her skating knee, the Death Spiral will have no value. :judge:
Previous rule: Any part of the Death Spiral with a higher lady’s or man’s position is not valid for Level features #3 (change of arm hold) and #4 (additional revolutions).
FYI: requirements for lady's death spiral "low" position:
for inside Death Spirals – the lowest hip or buttock and head should not be higher than her skating knee;
for outside Death Spirals – head should not be higher than her skating knee and bodyline between knee of skating leg and head should be flat or shallow arch.


And, the final remark for the second year in a row (a.k.a. the Ziggy :P rule):

The Single and Pair Technical Committee reminds the Judges of the necessary GOE reduction in case steps and/or movements do not immediately precede the jump in the Short Program. In case of steps the take-off of the jump must be in the rhythm of these steps.

5Ali3
05-05-2011, 06:31 PM
If during the Death Spiral Lady’s head never reaches the level of her skating knee, the Death Spiral will
have no value.

Yikes! I anticipate a lot of "Forward inside death spiral, no level" this year (thank goodness it's a FiDs year, though; this will be painful in a BoDS year). I'm hoping for a Technical Notification modifying this for Juvenile and Intermediate...

This seems like the fewest changes between seasons that I can recall. I regret the loss of "2 8s" (the ability to get credit for two features by doing 8 revolutions on each foot), because that was a wonderful features for lower level skaters and encourages the development of strength and spinning skills that are more important/essential than the ability to pull one's foot over one's head.

Dave of the North
05-05-2011, 08:37 PM
Pairs GOE Changes:
Previously: Twists, lady not caught at the waist was -2, final GOE must be in the minuses
Now: Twists, lady not caught at the waist is -1 to -2 GOE, final GOE not restricted

If the lady breaks the guy's nose on the way down, does that increase or decrease the GOE?:P

Ziggy
05-06-2011, 01:59 AM
Reducing GOE for steps not corresponding to the music is great in theory, the problem is they didn't specify what that means.

And let's face it, the judges are going to ignore that.


Pairs GOE Changes:
Previously: Twists, lady not caught at the waist was -2, final GOE must be in the minuses
Now: Twists, lady not caught at the waist is -1 to -2 GOE, final GOE not restricted

Great. Twists are usually badly enough executed as this is. And the judges don't usually apply the deductions that are in place already.


Steps: the criteria to satisfy the use of upper body movements level feature in singles and pairs step sequences has been reduced from a combined total of 2/3 to 1/2 of the step sequence pattern.

Another awful awful change. Why simplify it? Not like it's that hard to do anyway.

I am very dissapointed that flying upright (which is just :rolleyes:) hasn't been banned in the SP.


Death Spirals:
Feature #1 (Difficult entry and/or exit): Difficult entry to a death spiral should be on the curve and on the leg of the death spiral and while acquiring the actual death spiral position there should be a continuous and not too prolonged movement to this position.

Good change. Some of the "difficult entries" are performed for a millisecond and really shouldn't count.


And, the final remark for the second year in a row (a.k.a. the Ziggy :P rule):

The Single and Pair Technical Committee reminds the Judges of the necessary GOE reduction in case steps and/or movements do not immediately precede the jump in the Short Program. In case of steps the take-off of the jump must be in the rhythm of these steps.

Second year in the row because the judges continue to ignore this. :mad:

A number of skaters performed no steps whatsoever during the Ladies SP at 2011 Worlds and the deductions that are in the rulebook haven't been applied.


Yikes! I anticipate a lot of "Forward inside death spiral, no level" this year (thank goodness it's a FiDs year, though; this will be painful in a BoDS year). I'm hoping for a Technical Notification modifying this for Juvenile and Intermediate...

I think it's gonna be a dead rule.

Same as that rule saying that a sit position means buttocks not higher than the skating knee.

A few skaters at 2011 Worlds were higher and none of them ended up having those positions called as upright ones...

HisWeirness
05-06-2011, 04:39 AM
Second year in the row because the judges continue to ignore this. :mad:

A number of skaters performed no steps whatsoever during the Ladies SP at 2011 Worlds and the deductions that are in the rulebook haven't been applied.

I know. At least the SPTC keeps bringing up the issue. It would be really sad if no one cared that the basic SP requirements were not being met by many skaters. But, as you pointed out, the JUDGES need to act. :(

If the judges and callers start enforcing these rules on the GP (like when the UR rule came in with a vengeance) the skaters may respond and change their programs.

shan
05-06-2011, 04:53 AM
Has anything changed with pair lifts? I hate that some pairs seem to have the same lift 3 times in their LP w/ minor variations getting in or out. They all seem to go to the catchfoot position before the exit. :wall:

Cloudy_Gumdrops
05-06-2011, 05:16 AM
Has anything changed with pair lifts? I hate that some pairs seem to have the same lift 3 times in their LP w/ minor variations getting in or out. They all seem to go to the catchfoot position before the exit. :wall:

I hope so.

I'm so sick of those ugly catchfoot lifts.

casken
05-06-2011, 05:43 AM
It sounds like it's going to be harder to get level 4 elements basically?

Is the reduction in the GOE for level 4 steps an attempt to encourage skaters to go for better executed level 3 steps with +GOE than poorly done attempts at level 4? I'm not sure I get the point of the change.

Has anything changed with pair lifts? I hate that some pairs seem to have the same lift 3 times in their LP w/ minor variations getting in or out. They all seem to go to the catchfoot position before the exit.
That and the sbs footwork are the biggest issues with pairs right now. At the very least limit the catchfoot to one lift a program.


Another awful awful change. Why simplify it? Not like it's that hard to do anyway.
It's probably done to reduce the flailing look of the footwork sequences. I'm not necessarily unopposed to it. :shuffle:


I am very dissapointed that flying upright (which is just :rolleyes:) hasn't been banned in the SP.
I can't decide if I like it or not. I like seeing laybacks and back cross spins from men, so I'm kind of falling on the side of keeping it.