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View Full Version : International developmental opportunities: why is Skate CAN not using them?



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fan
04-01-2011, 08:31 PM
I've just noticed that the Triglav Trophy and the Gardena spring trophy are taking place in the next couple of weeks. The US has already announced their teams. Skate Canada used to participate in these developmental events, but has not for a while. It seems to me that the best competitive model to develop champions is to compete early and compete often. Is it purely for financial reasons that Skate Can no longer sends athletes?

Annes
04-04-2011, 02:31 PM
I'm bumping this; I want to know the answer, too!

Jenifer
04-04-2011, 05:37 PM
I can't quote you a source on this, but I think I remember reading previously that US skaters must pay their own way if they want to participate in these developmental competitions (maybe Sylvia can confirm or deny this?). Perhaps Skate Canada has the same rule and no Canadian skaters have volunteered to foot their own bills?

Sylvia
04-04-2011, 06:09 PM
7 USA singles skaters (all making their international debut) and their coaches were sent to Gardena Spring Trophy in Italy this past week and, AFAIK, all of their travel/hotel expenses were covered by USFS. Except for one skater, 6 will be JGP age-eligible next season, and so the purpose of these spring developmental assignments is to have them gain their first international experience in preparation for possible JGPs/other assignments in the future.

ETA: A few invited US singles skaters did pay their own way to compete at Triglav Trophy in April 2008 -- before then, USFS had covered expenses for this competition like they are still doing with Gardena. Challenge Cup in The Hague debuted in March 2007 and has been also been used by USFS as a developmental international (expenses paid), but the comp. was cancelled this year.

Dragonlady
04-04-2011, 07:06 PM
Canada stopped sending skaters to these events after David Dore resigned from Skate Canada. I'm told it's a money issue. I wish we would use every opportunity we have to get these kids international experience, especially since the North American Challenge Series, which was the only other place where kids at the Novice or just-up-from-Novice Juniors could get their first international opportunity, was cancelled a few years ago.

Now the kids start with JGP events.

Jenifer
04-04-2011, 07:08 PM
Thanks for the clarification.

barbk
04-04-2011, 08:41 PM
If money is tight, couldn't these kids get a similar experience by going to some of the larger club competitions in Canada or the US? I'm not sure that the overall competition level of the Gardena Spring Trophy at the junior level is that much higher than might be found at some of the summer comps, and the cost would likely be tremendously lower. It is one thing when Skate Canada chooses not to fill all the JGP slots it has available, but I can see making a decision that these spring developmentals in Europe aren't worth the bucks.

Polymer Bob
04-04-2011, 08:53 PM
One thing I have noticed is that some of the American summer competitions have quite an international flavor to them. It's like they are unofficial ISU events. They attract skaters from Canada, Europe, Asia, all over.

Dragonlady
04-05-2011, 04:37 PM
One thing I have noticed is that some of the American summer competitions have quite an international flavor to them. It's like they are unofficial ISU events. They attract skaters from Canada, Europe, Asia, all over.

The international nature of summer competitions in both Canada and the US is due to the summer programs offered at top training centres across North America. Skaters come from around the world to these training centres in the summer and, at the end of the summer, compete in the summer comps.

As well, the USFSA and Skate Canada use summer competition results in order to help determine JGP and senior B international assignments. Since the cancellation of the North American Challenge Skate events, the US and Canadian federations have an arrangement whereby a skaters' results in certain of these summer events in either country may be used for this purpose.

That said, the summer competitions are nothing like an international ISU competition and it is a huge mistake to think otherwise. The skaters are not there representing their countries, and the atmosphere and expectations are completely different. Summer competitions are about trying out your new programs in a competition setting and getting judge feedback.

Annes
08-12-2011, 05:49 PM
In the K&C Canadian summer competitions thread, we were musing about the negative implications of SC's really challenging criteria for international competition eligibility plus the general trend of SC not using all of its 'slots'.

I am wondering whether there is any way to express concerns about this, since these policies will come back to haunt the sport in a few years. Can anyone think of a sports journalist who might write a column in this if emailed about it, perhaps in the context of the post-Vancouver Olympics sport scene? Or does anyone have other ideas?

Sylvia
08-12-2011, 05:52 PM
For context, from the Skate Canada web site:

The following criteria will be used for selection of International Assignments for the 2011-2012 Junior Grand Prix and Senior [B] International events: click here (http://www.skatecanada.ca/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=xNYA-LlR56o%3d&tabid=234&language=en-US) (benchmark & target scores at summer competitions, technical requirements, etc.).

mag
08-12-2011, 08:49 PM
To play devil's advocate here, who should Skate Canada be sending? I was just looking through the Minto results http://mintoskatingclub.com/summer-skate-2011/summerskate2011-results/554-juniorwomen-longfl2.html
and there really wasn't anyone who, on paper, stood out as being ready. The first two in the 2nd flight of Junior LPs (the link above) are probably the closest just based on the protocols, but they are a long way from the JGP minimums. Caelen Dalmer (flight 2 3rd place) may be on track for next year. She is still quite young - 14 I believe.
There wasn't anyone who landed two different triples in the long, and most didn't even land a clean triple. I know these are development competitions, so even if you reduce the jump requirements from what is required for a JGP, you are still looking for someone who can land 2 different triples in the long and has a solid 2A and a triple in the short. There certainly weren't a lot of those at Minto.
I would love to be totally wrong, perhaps someone who was actually at Minto or Thornhill could make some suggestions.

Jenna
08-13-2011, 05:20 AM
Veronik Mallet and Julienne Seguin skated well at Quebec Summer Skate. Why not send them? They're doing mid 70s now in the free, not too bad. They just need some experience. Both have solid 3S and 2A. Mallet went for the 3Lo in the FS.

geoskate
08-13-2011, 07:13 AM
I'm not sure why Minto would be used as an example competition, since it's one of the weakest competitions in singles, arguably weaker in singles than Wild Rose, for example. It's strength is dance.

Far better examples for singles would be Quebec Summer, Thornhill, and BC Summer Skate. We'll know a lot more on which skaters should be considered in ten days, after those competitions are complete.

Having said that, there are skaters who have IMO already shown that they should at least be considered for the JGP assignments that have been left blank. In men, there are Garrett Gosselin (why is he only a sub?), Charles Dion, perhaps Peter O'Brien and Christophe Belley-Lemelin, depending on how they skate in the long program at Quebec this weekend.

Women is more questionable, but since there are only four spots anyway (if I remember correctly) that's not really where the issue is, IMO. Kate Charbonneau, Alexandra Najarro and Vanessa Grenier are going to get three of the four spots so really only one spot is up for grabs.

In pairs the talent pool is quite thin, and unfortunately Rau/Simpson and Orr/Furiano are not age-eligible, but I think people like Dejardins/Bilodeu should at least be considered even if they don't have all the technical qualifications.

It's in dance that I think the current assignment strategy is most off-target, however. There are numerous dance teams that are skating at a high calibre; they were already skating well at Canadians this past season, and I can't imagine that they've all regressed rather than improved. Bruser/Lum, Bent/MacKeen, and Hasegawa/Hasegawa should be more than just alternates, and in addition to that there are other strong treams: Fournier-Beaudry/Breton, Edwards/Pang (although Minto did not go well for them, they are a strong team), Paradis/Ouellette, to name a few, and that's ignoring any new dance teams this season.

nadioso
08-14-2011, 11:57 PM
Women is more questionable, but since there are only four spots anyway (if I remember correctly) that's not really where the issue is, IMO. Kate Charbonneau, Alexandra Najarro and Vanessa Grenier are going to get three of the four spots so really only one spot is up for grabs.


It's in dance that I think the current assignment strategy is most off-target, however. There are numerous dance teams that are skating at a high calibre; they were already skating well at Canadians this past season, and I can't imagine that they've all regressed rather than improved. Bruser/Lum, Bent/MacKeen, and Hasegawa/Hasegawa should be more than just alternates, and in addition to that there are other strong treams: Fournier-Beaudry/Breton, Edwards/Pang (although Minto did not go well for them, they are a strong team), Paradis/Ouellette, to name a few, and that's ignoring any new dance teams this season.

Some comments on your post. I agree with you for the most part.

Ladies: Grenier has aged out and is listed as a substitute for Nebelhorn. Perhaps she will get the Finlandia senior B. Purich did step up in Wild Rose ( scoring over 125 total which is well above the Skate Canada summer standard of 115. I don't think anyone else has stood out.

Dance : Canada only has 1 slot per JGP this year as Canada was the 5th best country at the last JW ( ie not in the top 3 which get 2 slots per JGP) So to be fair to SC, Canada has used all its dance slots so far this year. I am still mad that SC left half the slots blank last year ( when we actually could use 14 slots ) :mad::wall::wall:

Last year SC left the dance slots blank based on standards that were set before anyone had competed a short dance. Completely stupid.

So this season it is the men and pairs that are getting shafted. It is even better to fill it with novices. BTW , SC did this in pairs years ago ( Dube/Tetrault , Burke/Radford) and Dube/Tetrault made the JGPF before they won novice nationals.