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View Full Version : When (and where) in the world is Worlds? Update: MOSCOW! 4/24-5/1/11



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Dragonlady
03-28-2011, 03:59 AM
ETA: I remember- this happened around 2002 with Kwan- her fans made a big to-do about it...and then Phil Hersh with Meissner in 2008, where people nearly literally blew a gasket. (Then he did some follow up asking if her fans were tough enough, lol)

I've also heard fans say that skater's injuries and business matters are "private" and we shouldn't press for details. In baseball, football, hockey, golf, really any professional sport you can name, injuries are reported by the team to the press, including details of recovery time and when the can be expected to be back on the field. Coaches, how much they're paid and whether they should be fired are also frequently discussed.

All of the things that many figure skating fans say are private, or "none of our business" are fair game in other sports. Try listening to an all sports phone in show and listen to the way fans of "real" sports talk about the athletes and coaches. Why are the same subjects taboo when it comes to figure skating?

Made4Dancin
03-28-2011, 04:45 AM
I don't think anyone should tell an athlete, from any sport, when to retire. If they can't make the cut, they can't make the cut. That's what competition is for. For the best to win supposedly. So if you're the best or one of the best or you can still qualify then why shouldn't you? If you don't make it, you don't make it. Otherwise, it's ageism.

gkelly
03-28-2011, 05:04 AM
I've also heard fans say that skater's injuries and business matters are "private" and we shouldn't press for details. In baseball, football, hockey, golf, really any professional sport you can name, injuries are reported by the team to the press, including details of recovery time and when the can be expected to be back on the field. Coaches, how much they're paid and whether they should be fired are also frequently discussed.

All of the things that many figure skating fans say are private, or "none of our business" are fair game in other sports. Try listening to an all sports phone in show and listen to the way fans of "real" sports talk about the athletes and coaches. Why are the same subjects taboo when it comes to figure skating?

Well, most skaters aren't professionals.

Maybe those things should become fair game as soon as a skater's prize money and endorsements exceed their training expenses for one season?

What happens if they don't earn anything the next season and go back into debt?

VIETgrlTerifa
03-28-2011, 05:11 AM
If it means anything, I have always been unimpressed, and that's putting it mildly, with sport reports/writers because I find they tend to be just as snarky (to the point of cruel) and clueless as any obsessive sports fan who posts on the internet. It's worse with them because they're getting paid. I know I shouldn't generalize about all sports writers and the field of sports journalism, but from the few times I catch ESPN or read columns ripping athletes to shreds or making predictions that are always inaccurate (and yet after they're wrong, they don't really acknowledge it and then just do the same thing again and again), I just find that whole field of journalism to be incredibly unprofessional.

berthesghost
03-28-2011, 05:14 AM
I've also heard fans say that skater's injuries and business matters are "private" and we shouldn't press for details. In baseball, football, hockey, golf, really any professional sport you can name, injuries are reported by the team to the press, including details of recovery time and when the can be expected to be back on the field. Coaches, how much they're paid and whether they should be fired are also frequently discussed.

All of the things that many figure skating fans say are private, or "none of our business" are fair game in other sports. Try listening to an all sports phone in show and listen to the way fans of "real" sports talk about the athletes and coaches. Why are the same subjects taboo when it comes to figure skating?FS fans coddle their favorite skaters. But really, it's unfair to compare it to prodominately male viewership sports like you did, as well as team based sports. How does it shape up to other individual based sports with an almost exclusively female viewership?

jlai
03-28-2011, 05:49 AM
We complain that sports writers don't treat figure skating like a sport, but when they do, we complain that it's none of their business. You can't have it both ways.

Agreed. Though I think the predominantly female viewership also comes into play.

VIETgrlTerifa
03-28-2011, 06:04 AM
I also wonder how much aggressive sports writing tend to be about athletes who are adults compared to the athletes in figure skating who can be younger.

For football fans, is there a difference in sports journalism between collegiate football and professional football? Or how about rookies coming out of college vs. veterans who have been around for a while.

flowerpower
03-28-2011, 06:13 AM
In pro sport, mega-dollar contracts are the norm. When fans are paying high ticket prices to watch a sporting match and they know the athletes are making considerable $$$, it goes with the territory to question whether the team's money is being well spent on an athlete's contract and whether the athlete is pulling his weight. Pro athletes are compensated very well and should expect tough scrutiny from stakeholders.

Quite different from skating, IMO. Skaters don't go into the sport to make money - and only a few of them ever do. Most sports writers aren't ripping on amateur athletes, in general.

Vash01
03-28-2011, 06:26 AM
No one except the skater or the coach has the right to say or advise the skater to leave or stay. Especially when the skater keeps training while someone is writing his "advises" the butt comfortably sat on a sofa.

I have a lot of admiration for people who have the guts to get in front of everyone and try to perform whatever it is. It takes courage and passion because one gets exposed to other's judgements. So, those who just stay behind, carefully hidden from other's eyes, critisizing and giving judgements, are just less interesting.


ITA. It's up to the skater when he/she wants to retire.

Japanfan
03-28-2011, 06:45 AM
No one except the skater or the coach has the right to say or advise the skater to leave or stay. Especially when the skater keeps training while someone is writing his "advises" the butt comfortably sat on a sofa.


Sports writers have the right to express their opinion about whether skaters have the right to leave or stay - and their opinions about all sorts of things. If they didn't do that, writers like Phil would be out of a job. But skaters certainly don't have to listen to them and readers can ignore them.

Writers can say that Elvis, Fumie or Michelle should retire but they may not understand why skaters choose to continue competing or whether that choice is the right one for them. I agree that Elvis declined the last few years he stayed in and it was sad to watch him seek that elusive something which would satisfy him by resurrecting the Bruce Lee program. He did say himself that he aspired to take his skating to the next level, that there was something yet to do. In recent years that same sentiment of dissatisfaction has been a theme in his skating commentary. But if an athlete is driven by such dissatisfaction they are entitled to try and work it out however they wish.

Others like Fumie may just simply love skating. Or, you have those who receive funding and see it as a job. They may not know what else to do with their lives.

And skaters who stay have to earn their spots just as always, so opinions regard what they should do are quite meaningless.

flowerpower
03-28-2011, 06:54 AM
I have a lot of admiration for people who have the guts to get in front of everyone and try to perform whatever it is. It takes courage and passion because one gets exposed to other's judgements. So, those who just stay behind, carefully hidden from other's eyes, critisizing and giving judgements, are just less interesting.

I absolutely agree. :respec:

RD
03-28-2011, 07:04 AM
Of course, athletes are free to do as they please. But when they are past their prime and are hanging in there, they should expect criticism and people telling them to give it up. Same if they're struggling. The REAL champions are the ones that go out there in spite of it all and prove people wrong.

In my discussions on skating forums, I usually try not to directly tell a skater to retire. However, I will say if I feel the skater is past her prime, which might imply to some that she should move on.

Dragonlady
03-28-2011, 07:05 AM
In pro sport, mega-dollar contracts are the norm. When fans are paying high ticket prices to watch a sporting match and they know the athletes are making considerable $$$, it goes with the territory to question whether the team's money is being well spent on an athlete's contract and whether the athlete is pulling his weight. Pro athletes are compensated very well and should expect tough scrutiny from stakeholders.

Quite different from skating, IMO. Skaters don't go into the sport to make money - and only a few of them ever do. Most sports writers aren't ripping on amateur athletes, in general.

There is no difference. Elite skaters are pro athletes, competing for prize money just like pro tennis players. They received funding from their federations, and significant prize money. No athlete goes into the sport to make money, but by the time you get to Worlds, money is a factor and the prize money they're competing for is significant.

And yes, college athletes are fair game, as are high school athletes, athough sports writers pay far more attention to pros. And rookies are not cut any slackcut, especially the "star" rookies with the big contracts, some of whom are straight out of high school.

julieann
03-28-2011, 07:20 AM
Of course, athletes are free to do as they please. But when they are past their prime and are hanging in there, they should expect criticism and people telling them to give it up. Same if they're struggling. The REAL champions are the ones that go out there in spite of it all and prove people wrong.

In my discussions on skating forums, I usually try not to directly tell a skater to retire. However, I will say if I feel the skater is past her prime, which might imply to some that she should move on.

How is that different from bashing a skater who has been in the sport quite a while and hasn't accomplished much if anything, should they stop trying as well?

Someone mentioned Elvis, but in his last Olympics he got 8th place, maybe a step down from what he got before but it was better that the other men who got 9th place and lower, should they have 'hung it up' also since they weren't as good? As long as the athlete feels they can, they should stay as long as they like.

julieann
03-28-2011, 07:30 AM
There is no difference. Elite skaters are pro athletes, competing for prize money just like pro tennis players. They received funding from their federations, and significant prize money. No athlete goes into the sport to make money, but by the time you get to Worlds, money is a factor and the prize money they're competing for is significant.

And yes, college athletes are fair game, as are high school athletes, athough sports writers pay far more attention to pros. And rookies are not cut any slackcut, especially the "star" rookies with the big contracts, some of whom are straight out of high school.

The difference is night and day. "pro" athletes have contracts that skaters do not. Pro athletes don't get paid based on if they win or not; a player in the NFL or NBA will get paid millions if he is first or dead last. The problem is a pro athlete can't just take a year off because the $$$ is still ties up in the rooster that can't be spent on new players. That that why you have some older players like Michael Jordan and Brett Favre having to "retire" only to come back, they aren't technically allowed to take a year off, you are getting paid to play so you play. Skaters have no such contracts, that is why some can take a year or two off and come back ala S/Z.

Who takes sports writers seriously anyway? They are usually people who have failed at every sport they have ever tried. They are just doing their job, no one has to read them, including the athletes.