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View Full Version : Whose been the best since Katarina Witt retired?



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VIETgrlTerifa
03-28-2011, 12:33 AM
:lol: @ the direction this thread turned. Not surprising of course or unfamiliar (I vaguely remember the Kwaniacs on Figure Skate World, hell, I was one.)

duane
03-28-2011, 01:50 AM
LOL, and now, I wonder who has voted for Baiul ! :lol:
Hey, there's no need to be cynical about Oksana. She didn't have the jump difficulty/combos, but she had great technique. And to many, she is the skater who put the art in artistry.

RumbleFish
03-28-2011, 05:09 AM
Tonya Harding, Josee Chouinard. I'm sure I've seen a well-known male skater performed it also.

Tonya Harding was accredited with popularizing the layover camel position, but never achieved inverse position that Yuna does. Josee Chouinard's layover position was pretty, and deeper than Harding's, but not as deep as Yuna's nor capable of keeping the position long as Yuna.

Her inverse camel position requires incredible amount of strength and sense of balance. Doing it is a one thing, but making it pretty and meeting the strict level requirements of CoP is another.

briancoogaert
03-28-2011, 11:20 AM
Hey, there's no need to be cynical about Oksana. She didn't have the jump difficulty/combos, but she had great technique. And to many, she is the skater who put the art in artistry.
I'm sorry, I didn't want to be cynical.
The fact is that Oksana was really talented, but IMO, she came too early. She was absolutely unable to do a turn much more difficult than a 3-turn. Her skating was beautiful, but very simple. I would have loved to see her on the scene later, with much more difficult steps, jumps entrances, spins entrances... ;)

annie_mg
03-28-2011, 09:39 PM
For me, the most complete skater I've ever seen is Yu Na Kim. I was a baby when Witt was skating, and only really started watching in around 1996. I saw Kwan, I remember Lu Chen, and did watch some vids of the older skaters online, but Yu Na just has it all: the jumps, the flexibility, the musicality, the style, she's pretty...I just can't find any mistake apart from her low leg in her spiral.

EricRohmer
03-29-2011, 07:35 AM
Glad to see the two of my all-time favorites are leading the poll. And it’s wonderful that Michelle has been such a good influence on Yu-Na over the years. In her autobiographical essays published two years ago, Yu-Na recalls her first encounter with the (televised) performance of Michelle at Nagano Olympics: “It was the moment the dream of being a figure skater, which was a vague notion for me at the time, took a tangible, concrete form. For the first time, I had a role model, somebody I wanted to resemble.”

love yuna's this words

Ozzisk8tr
03-29-2011, 08:03 AM
Tonya Harding was accredited with popularizing the layover camel position, but never achieved inverse position that Yuna does. Josee Chouinard's layover position was pretty, and deeper than Harding's, but not as deep as Yuna's nor capable of keeping the position long as Yuna.

Her inverse camel position requires incredible amount of strength and sense of balance. Doing it is a one thing, but making it pretty and meeting the strict level requirements of CoP is another.

The Inverted camel has been done for decades on roller, to the point know where they do a catch foot position first, then invert while holding the foot. Yuna's is the best I've seen on ice, but it still doesn't get right over.

RumbleFish
03-29-2011, 08:38 AM
The Inverted camel has been done for decades on roller, to the point know where they do a catch foot position first, then invert while holding the foot. Yuna's is the best I've seen on ice, but it still doesn't get right over.

I've seen videos of roller skaters doing inverse camel spins, but they don't have to do it on edges like figure skaters nor do they change directly into sit positions to get a level 4. I could be wrong on the latter point, but c'mon, would it be fair to compare figure skater's elements to those of other sports? If this was the case, I could criticize the shit out of Sasha Cohen's spiral positions comparing it to those of gymnasts and prima ballerinas.

antmanb
03-29-2011, 02:02 PM
I've seen videos of roller skaters doing inverse camel spins, but they don't have to do it on edges like figure skaters nor do they change directly into sit positions to get a level 4.

Transitioning from an inverted camel into a sit position does not give you any bullets for a level 4 so i'm not sure why it's relevant :confused:

RumbleFish
03-29-2011, 02:40 PM
Transitioning from an inverted camel into a sit position does not give you any bullets for a level 4 so i'm not sure why it's relevant :confused:

And when did I say transitioning from inverted camel into a sit position alone gurantee a level 4? :confused:

l'etoile
03-29-2011, 05:10 PM
Michelle surely owned the arena when she was on the ice, captivated everyone watching her and led fs to another level. And there's Yuna. They are the godesses of fs in my heart, and I don't think there will be anyone like them in the long future.

judgejudy27
03-29-2011, 08:01 PM
By 1986 / 87, stronger technical skaters like Liz Manley, Jill Trenary, and Debi Thomas were appearing on the scene.


I never considered Trenary a stronger technical skater than Witt. Her jumps are smaller and weaker, and of course more inconsistent, and her spins are defnitely not better. Her only technical edge of any kind was a once in awhile triple flip which she usually missed, omitted, or executed poorly, and a jump Witt used to do anyway.

Thomas was only really a potentially stronger technical skater than Witt in 1988. In 86 and 87 the two were on the same level technically, and were doing the exact same jumps. Thomas had just as hard a time with the triple loop then as Witt.

Manley potentially always was but was a crash and burn skater mostly anyway.

judgejudy27
03-29-2011, 08:05 PM
Kim hasn't dominated skating like Kwan did in her heydey or for nearly as long. Plus Kwan could be counted to skate clean in almost every event she was in. Kim has skated clean once i believe at the Olympics but otherwise she's not nearly as consistent as Michelle was.

I prefer Kwan's skating to Kim's but I actually find Kim much more dominant. The only time I felt Kwan was really dominant was her first 15 months or so of dominance. Once early 97 came around she was regularly bested in major events by Lipinski for the next 2 seasons. Then she surprisingly lost Worlds to Maria after a mostly absent season, then she spent the next 3 seasons mostly losing to Slutskaya and even a couple times to Hughes. She then went into her twilight years, won 1 more Worlds, but also came 3rd and 4th at Worlds. Kwan was never really dominant when she had a prime Lipinski or prime Slutskaya as a main rival, whereas Kim has been dominant for periods even with Asada as a rival.

Kim I believe lost only 3 times the last 3 seasons. She was virtually unbeatable most of the time, often winning by huge point margins. The only 3 season span Kwan lost only 3 times was 97-98 to 99-2000 but she didnt even compete regularly like Kim did, and had to come from behind to win Nationals and Worlds both in 2000.

floskate
03-29-2011, 08:10 PM
I never considered Trenary a stronger technical skater than Witt. Her jumps are smaller and weaker, and of course more inconsistent, and her spins are defnitely not better. Her only technical edge of any kind was a once in awhile triple flip which she usually missed, omitted, or executed poorly, and a jump Witt used to do anyway.

Thomas was only really a potentially stronger technical skater than Witt in 1988. In 86 and 87 the two were on the same level technically, and were doing the exact same jumps. Thomas had just as hard a time with the triple loop then as Witt.

Manley potentially always was but was a crash and burn skater mostly anyway.

On what basis would you say Trenary's spins were weaker than Witt's? Also Witt stopped trying triple flip in the fall of 1983 so it's safe to assume that by Worlds in 1987 when Trenary made her major international debut, Witt's flip was never going to make a comeback. Also Witt's loop was only ever landed once in a major competition, at the same worlds. Trenary had much more success over a longer period with the flip and the fact that she was also putting it in her SP at the time does IMO give her a hypothetical technical edge. I would agree that Witt's toe and sal, when working were of a higher quality to Jill's but it's not as if Jill's were teeny tiny compared to someone like Kadavy when looking at the same jumps. (Kadavy's loop was infinitely superior to her toe and sal). I do pretty much agree with your take on Thomas and Manley however.

judgejudy27
03-29-2011, 10:38 PM
The only time I remember Jill ever landing a good triple flip was the 87 Nationals and Worlds and the 1990 Worlds (well sort of, she was pitched forward a bit landing it). Her triple flip in the short programs of both the 87 Worlds and 88 Olympics were landed but not well done and affected her placing. Her triple flip in the long program of the 89 Nationals was also not well done. I guess I never credited her as really having that mastered the triple flip when you could count on one hand the number of times she landed it and it actually helped her rather than being a hinderance.

I dont know if Jill's spins were worse than Witt's but I dont think they were any better. Her layback was ugly, and no better than Witt's which was also wasnt very good. Her camel spins were probably weaker than Witt's, her sit spins and the scratch spin were probably about the same. Witt found it very easy to beat Trenary on technical scores when they competed head to head though, regardless how Trenary skated. Of course alot of that was probably reputation but I dont remember anyone arguing Trenary deserved higher technical marks or had outskated Witt technically in any of the programs they went head to head either.