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dawnie
03-30-2011, 08:12 PM
I thought the judging of Worlds 2004 was pretty bad in some ways. Arakawa I thought was held up bigtime in the short but held down bigtime in the long despie that she won it. Her short program was mediocre and should have been 4th or lower. No way should she have been placed over Ando or Kwan. Her long was stupendous though and should have been showered with 6.0s given how the scoring at that years Worlds was, and had straight 1st place ordinals. Kwan's long program was quite good too, but even Cohen being placed over Shizuka by 3 of the 9 counting judges with that lame performance was awful. Kostner's long program was a train wreck and got a 5.9 for technical merit and placed 5th ahead of the European Champion.

The thing about the 2005 Worlds more than her 4th place showing though was that she was never competitive with Slutskaya or Cohen at all it seemed, as those two seemed to open up a chasm on all the others this year. That was what surprised people the most. Of course those two had the most experience under COP and had tailor made their programs and skating for it.

2004 Worlds was the beginning of Kostner being overmarked. Her winning bronze over Kwan at 2005 Worlds was a joke IMO. They were definitely grooming her for a medal for Torino.

I find it ironic the one time she skated a decent free skate at Worlds (2010, in Torino no less), she was not held up.

olympic
03-30-2011, 09:08 PM
Re 2004 Worlds - didn't Shiz ur the back-ends of both 3-3s? Perhaps this and the fact she was the 1st skater are the reasons why no 6.0s were thrown out.

ks777
03-30-2011, 09:39 PM
Re 2004 Worlds - didn't Shiz ur the back-ends of both 3-3s? Perhaps this and the fact she was the 1st skater are the reasons why no 6.0s were thrown out.

Yes, to me they were underrotated but somehow they were ratified.

olympic
03-30-2011, 10:07 PM
Yes, to me they were underrotated but somehow they were ratified.

And that was no slam. If it weren't for the questionable rotations, I'd rank her '04 Worlds performance as the performance of the past decade

attyfan
03-30-2011, 10:15 PM
... 2004 and 2005 Worlds- needless to say alot of problems for Kwan at both events which were the result of her dissapointing placing, as both times she finished directly behind a not so great performance which should have been easily beatable (Cohen in 2004 and Kostner in 2005).

At Worlds in 2004, Kwan lost the FS to Arakawa .. who did one of the most technically advanced programs ever done by a lady at Worlds. By 2005, Kwan's hip was shot.

judgejudy27
03-30-2011, 10:19 PM
At Worlds in 2004, Kwan lost the FS to Arakawa .. who did one of the most technically advanced programs ever done by a lady at Worlds. By 2005, Kwan's hip was shot.

Kwan could have won the free skate at the 2004 Worlds and she still would have placed only 3rd overall. She lost since she had bombed the qualifying round and not done as well as she would have liked in the short.

Ozzisk8tr
03-31-2011, 12:33 AM
Um.. I wouldn’t say you’re 100% wrong, but I don’t agree here. Ice and roller skating are almost identical? First of all, friction is different, especially when one’s spinning, affording the roller skaters far greater command of certain positions. And you cannot compare roller skating edges to ice skating edges. I wouldn’t put Jordan up against Bolt as to who could run faster down the lane. It would be fairer to compare Yu-Na’s crafts with those of other (figure) skaters.

Comparing basketball to running is not the same as comparing someone who does axels, toe loops, flips, lutz, camel spins, sit spins, same compulsory dances, pairs skating, school figures etc... You don't think these are similar? I'm so glad Yuna does the invert, as now more ice people will be trying to perfect it. That's called progress. There have been a few over the years on ice who have had great (almost) inverts, Yuna has the best I've seen on ice. Don't start with the "roller skaters can't edge" as that's simply not true. Of course they have to edge, some roller skaters may not be as deep as others, but this happens in ice too. Apart from the heel camel and the inverted camel, ice skaters can do more different positions that roller skaters in spins, so I'd be interested to know which positions are easier for roller skaters to take command of.

artsciboy
03-31-2011, 04:21 AM
I'm disappointed that Butyrskaya isn't an option. She delivered one of the very few 7-triple performances to win Worlds.

Her technique was also fantastic - yes, she let the nerves get to her in competition, causing her to have misses and stiff jumps. But when she was "on" like at '99 Worlds, '00 Worlds SP, '98 - '00 Europeans, etc. her jumps were awesome. She was also able to truly interpret the music. She gets my vote.

judgejudy27
04-01-2011, 01:39 AM
Why would Butyrskaya be an option when she beat Kwan only 2 times in their 8 years competing against each other, was generally dominated in her own era by Kwan, Slutskaya, Lipinski, Chen, Hughes, and Cohen, was only even a contender for the gold medal 2 or 3 times her whole long senior career, won only 3 World medals and no Olympic medals, never won the GP final, was not a standout either technically, artistically, or in terms of consistency, was gangly and awkward overall, and blew it badly in her two of her three biggest long programs ever- when trying to defend her World title in 2000 and trying to win an Olympic medal in 1998. Even if she were more consistent she wouldnt be that great a skater though if she had defended her World title in 2000 her rep for the final 2 seasons might have carried her to a brighter overall career, especialy provided she miracelously pulled out some clean long programs which she almost never did anyway.

If you have Butyrskaya as an option you might as well have Jill Trenary or Surya Bonaly. They are skaters of about her level of success, importance in their own time, and overall ability and consistency.

berthesghost
04-01-2011, 02:48 AM
^The 7 triple comment is pretty curious to me too. Hasn't every single ladies champ since 91 landed a 6 or 7 triple LP. Even if you include 89 and 90, wasn't Jill the only one with less than 6. One extra triple that plenty of others like Kwan, Lipinski, Meisner etc.. did anyway, just seems like such a petty detail to focus on. At that rate, why not just list Kimmie in the poll and give us all a good chuckle! :lol:

ETA: oh, maybe Baiul in 93 and Yuka in 94 only did 5? Lulu in 95 I guess was only 5. Boy, there really was a dip there.

duane
04-01-2011, 02:52 AM
To many, Janet Lynn is the best skater who ever lived. We all have our own opinion as to what "best" means, and to some, it's not decided on medals.

ks777
04-01-2011, 03:35 AM
To many, Janet Lynn is the best skater who ever lived. We all have our own opinion as to what "best" means, and to some, it's not decided on medals.

ITA!

berthesghost
04-01-2011, 03:58 AM
To many, Janet Lynn is the best skater who ever lived. We all have our own opinion as to what "best" means, and to some, it's not decided on medals.Definitely!

But to be fair, Lynn pretty much won the free skate of almost every comp she entered with very high marks, so.... it's kinda sorta the same thing as going by medals as an indication of greatness. Now, had you said Kathryn Healey..:shuffle:

Jammers
04-01-2011, 04:21 PM
1971 Worlds. The French people were so outraged that Janet didn't win a medal despite being clearly the best free skater that at the awards ceremony Janet had to take a bow as the crowd kept shouting her name. When is the last time you saw a skater who didn't even win a medal have to do something like that in an event like the World Championships? Now that's respect. Because of this incident they came up with the SP soon after. That's all you need to know about Janet Lynn. She changed skating forever.

fdevine
04-18-2011, 08:53 PM
This is the most interesting, entertaining and informative thread I've read in a long time. Thanks everyone.

Frances