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mmscfdcsu
03-16-2011, 04:47 PM
Money. The chance to make a living at what he does best. Unless you want to wear a big fuzzy head, SOI is the only game around for skaters. And as far as that show being a team, it's not really. They can call themselves anything they like but one's performance does not affect anothers'. There was never any problem with COI so why should there be with SOI unless the ptb of that organization have a problem with some aspect of Johnny. It can't be his skating. They use people way less successful than him. It can't be that he has no crowd appeal. He's the most popular male figure skater - OGM or not. He could put butts in the seats which has become a problelm for SOI. So what's the deal? It makes one wonder. ;)


Unless you consider his comments about always riding the bus with the Russians when he traveled with COI and the comments he made about the atmosphere on the more American bus.

manleywoman
03-16-2011, 05:02 PM
\
The "Tour de Hamilton" IMO has always been more about pretty skating, conformity, and "let's praise Scott Hamilton" (save the Christopher Dean years which had some truly amazing numbers) which is why I don't tend to go.

Which is why I also hate SOI . . .


Personally, I like it when it keeps things tame in that department but shows genuine creativity in the programs, like it's been for the past couple of years.

. . . but also like SOI.

But for me, I'd rather watch competition that most exhibitions. Mainly because I'm a Radiohead/Pink Floyd/Jeff Buckley kind of gal, and the shows tend to be Celine Dion/Andrea Bocelli/Josh Groban types of numbers. So I don't tend to go myself unless the tickets are free or really cheap. That goes for SOI, COI, or smaller shows.

I just find a lot of the shows to be cheesy. :shuffle: But every once in a while I'll se a number that I LOVE (like Tanith/Ben's number from last year which was 100% adorable and creative.)

overedge
03-16-2011, 05:50 PM
And as far as that show being a team, it's not really. They can call themselves anything they like but one's performance does not affect anothers'.

Except maybe in the group numbers which are a feature of SOI shows.

Justathoughtabl
03-16-2011, 05:51 PM
Absolutely! They love crappy kiddie music. Poker Face would fit right in. He could do the same old triple toe and doughnut spin and slide on the ice sticking his whatever in the air, the same as he does in every exhibition number. Poker Face would be perfect for SOI.

Of course everyone has their own opinion about Poker Face, but I loved it, and I don't even like cheesy pop music. But note: Johnny hasn't done Poker Face in quite some time. He's been doing Heartbroken (gorgeous and classical) and Bad Romance, both of which may be close to retirement, since he's working on new exhibition numbers, as he tweeted today. The Lady Gaga stuff is an anomaly for him. Think of his other exhibitions: Imagine, All in Love is Fair, Ave Maria, Heartbroken (A Comme L'Amour), Hymn L'Amour, Feeling Good, etc.) He has pretty good taste in music, in my opinion. To me, his exhibitions are usually pretty sophisticated. As for using the same moves a lot, I'll give you the slide, although it's extremely popular and always gets a big reaction. But the other stuff? I think a lot of the skaters repeat the moves they're good at. Look at Stephane's spins. He always throws a whole bunch in there.

aftershocks
03-16-2011, 05:53 PM
@Prancer: Thanks for your input. Far be it from me to think I'm in a position to give FSUers permission to do or not do anything. My tongue-in-cheek "disclaimer" is specifically directed to those who have recently stated in other threads that I'm "insulting other posters, and trying to get other posters to think the way I do," by expressing my own points of view.

@attyfan: "(Michael W is ahead by one world bronze)." Thanks for pointing that out, attyfan. ;) I enjoyed some of Michael's performances when he was competing in the eligible ranks, and having seen him recently in a fluff competition, I think he's continued to hone his skating skills. Yet, I still have to :lol: at the notion that counting "hardware" is the most important way of determining the success or lack of success of skaters. [e.g., Michelle Kwan has two Olympic medals, but no gold -- and so what? MK is and will likely remain for a long time one of the most decorated skaters in fs history. Beyond medals, what she accomplished was amazing on so many levels. Sure the "hardware" stats are tremendous, but what I will remember most about her is the courage, passion, exquisite grace, and determination she always displayed on and off the ice -- and most importantly the way her spirit soared, taking the entire audience with her ... The experience was spine-tingling and uplifting.]

Back to the mundane task at hand. So what that Michael W is ahead of Johnny W by one World bronze. Some people are understandably stat crazy about baseball, but figure skating?! As I mentioned about Paul Wylie earlier, the important thing that matters is he put it all together and shined at the penultimate moment of his eligible career, which led to his having a long and satisfying professional career, and to his fans being able to experience so many memorable and fantastic moments. Great accomplishment re the silver Olympic medal itself, but the number of medals Paul was or was not able to garner over his career is not a measure of his success nor who he was as a skater.

SOI vs Johnny :blah:

attyfan
03-16-2011, 06:18 PM
...

@attyfan: "(Michael W is ahead by one world bronze)." Thanks for pointing that out, attyfan. ;) I enjoyed some of Michael's performances when he was competing in the eligible ranks, and having seen him recently in a fluff competition, I think he's continued to hone his skating skills. Yet, I still have to :lol: at the notion that counting "hardware" is the most important way of determining the success or lack of success of skaters. [e.g., Michelle Kwan has two Olympic medals, but no gold -- and so what? MK is and will likely remain for a long time one of the most decorated skaters in fs history. Beyond medals, what she accomplished was amazing on so many levels. Sure the "hardware" stats are tremendous, but what I will remember most about her is the courage, passion, exquisite grace, and determination she always displayed on and off the ice -- and most importantly the way her spirit soared, taking the entire audience with her ... The experience was spine-tingling and uplifting.]

Back to the mundane task at hand. So what that Michael W is ahead of Johnny W by one World bronze. Some people are understandably stat crazy about baseball, but figure skating?! As I mentioned about Paul Wylie earlier, the important thing that matters is he put it all together and shined at the penultimate moment of his eligible career, which led to his having a long and satisfying professional career, and to his fans being able to experience so many memorable and fantastic moments. Great accomplishment re the silver Olympic medal itself, but the number of medals Paul was or was not able to garner over his career is not a measure of his success nor who he was as a skater.
...


ITA that there is more to skating than the medals or the stats. The issue, however, is whether there is some improper reason for SOI not hiring Johnny ... and one poster noted in support of this theory that there were people on SOI whose competitive records were not as impressive as Weir's. I merely countered that the fact that Johnny's record is not more impressive than any of the men currently under contract with SOI. That his record is more impressive than Alissa C's (for example) does not show any bad reason for not hiring Johnny if SOI needed a ladies singles skater.

zaphyre14
03-16-2011, 06:38 PM
The last I knew SOI was not federally funded and so wasn't subject to EEO regulations. If they don't want to invite Johnny - or Plushenko - or Joe Schmoe off the street, they don't have to, regardless of qualifications. They can hire who they want - and who they want is obviously someone whom they believe fits into their corporate culture best.

In any business structure, there are people who don't fit in, no matter how talented or smart or creative they are. In a tight marketplace, the intelligent candidate learns how to adapt and fit themselves into the market, not stand up and demand that the market change to suit them.

Putting Johnny into SOI would be like pounding a square peg in a round hole - it's painful to both objects and one or the other ends up irreparbly damaged. I'm betting that Scott & Co decided that Johnny, no matter how popular he may or may not be to spectators, just isn't worth the drama that would come along with him.

REO
03-16-2011, 08:01 PM
Just because something is repeated over and over does not make it so. When Johnny gets his show or tour or whatever he is working on up and running and he can actually demonstrate his ability to put butts in seats in substantial numbers, then this argument might have some validity.

I certainly didn't mean he could fill the arena but he does have a huge following. I don't know how such a thing could be confirmed except by the fact that he won the Kwan trophy placing 6th when the OGM did not in an Olympic year. He was chosen to be the subject of a documentary and tv show (even Michelle did not get that attention) and his Facebook and Twitter followings supercede the other men. I still think butts would be added if he was included.

That being said this is all so old. It's never going to happen for whatever reason.
The notion that he would cause drama is unfounded. The European and Asian companies have no problem in hiring him. Attyfan's post about balancing the ticket is certainly reasonable and plausible. I think he's doing okay without SOI. ;)

REO
03-16-2011, 08:06 PM
Unless you consider his comments about always riding the bus with the Russians when he traveled with COI and the comments he made about the atmosphere on the more American bus.

They are his friends. What did he say about the atmosphere on the "American" bus?

judiz
03-16-2011, 11:32 PM
They are his friends. What did he say about the atmosphere on the "American" bus?

I remember Johnny referring to the "Russian" bus as the party bus so I assume the "American" bus was too quiet for Johnny. However, in the last summer of COI, there was only one bus and everyone rode together.

judiz
03-16-2011, 11:33 PM
Except maybe in the group numbers which are a feature of SOI shows.



There were group numbers in COI too, remember the James Bond theme the last year where Evan (James Bond) and Johnny ( a villian) had a mock fight and Evan killed Johnny? I remember seeing COI in 2006 and watching the skaters, including Johnny moving props in the dark and helping to set up the scenery for the individual and group programs.

overedge
03-17-2011, 01:07 AM
There were group numbers in COI too, remember the James Bond theme the last year where Evan (James Bond) and Johnny ( a villian) had a mock fight and Evan killed Johnny? I remember seeing COI in 2006 and watching the skaters, including Johnny moving props in the dark and helping to set up the scenery for the individual and group programs.

Uh, no, COI could never be bothered to tour in Canada, so I don't remember any of its group numbers :P

But my impression of the difference between the two shows was that COI was more of a collection of performances by individual skaters without any connection (usually just the skaters doing whatever show number(s) they had that year), while SOI was more of a group show with a "theme" that was often reflected in the skaters' individual programs and costumes.

REO
03-17-2011, 03:09 AM
I remember Johnny referring to the "Russian" bus as the party bus so I assume the "American" bus was too quiet for Johnny. However, in the last summer of COI, there was only one bus and everyone rode together.

Well I'll get the tar you get the feathers! Imagine a 20 year old wanting to party!

JMO but I would think that if SOI had certain themes or songs or moves they did not like, they would say something and the skater would have to comply if he or she wished to be paid. This is pro skating. Johnny might protest but in the end they would be his bosses and he would either give in or get out. He never got that chance. To tag him as uncooperative and a trouble maker before the fact is unfair and not based on truth.

aftershocks
03-17-2011, 06:20 AM
There were group numbers in COI too, remember the James Bond theme the last year where Evan (James Bond) and Johnny (a villian) had a mock fight and Evan killed Johnny? I remember seeing COI in 2006 and watching the skaters, including Johnny moving props in the dark and helping to set up the scenery for the individual and group programs.

I do remember that group number :lol: Seriously ;) , if Johnny went along with being the villian while Evan as James Bond had the chance to "do away with him" at every tour performance, well ... Johnny accepting that scenario (even while he probably didn't enjoy it), as well as helping set up scenery (!) sure seems like "team player" behavior to me, as in "somebody who works cooperatively: a member of a group who cooperates with other people and who subordinates personal interests in order to achieve a common goal."


@REO: "To tag [Johnny] as uncooperative and a trouble maker before the fact is unfair and not based on truth."

:respec:


BTW, @manleywoman: Thanks for responding to my earlier queries about the interview with Johnny's agent, Tara. :) Do you recall who the skater was that you previously interviewed prior to eligible retirement?

antmanb
03-17-2011, 09:02 AM
Well I'll get the tar you get the feathers! Imagine a 20 year old wanting to party!

JMO but I would think that if SOI had certain themes or songs or moves they did not like, they would say something and the skater would have to comply if he or she wished to be paid. This is pro skating. Johnny might protest but in the end they would be his bosses and he would either give in or get out. He never got that chance. To tag him as uncooperative and a trouble maker before the fact is unfair and not based on truth.

But it happens all the time in job interviews - people make those value judgments all the time about people when they go to hire them. If we equate the hardware to a written CV, someone else has said that every male on the cast of SOI has more hardware than Johnny, so if it boils down to skating, personality and likeability all of those things would have to be better than someone with more hardware to justify the hire. If someone has made very public PR blunders or holds controversial views (like loving fur) then as an employer wanting things to go smoothly, who would you hire?

Pain in the ass divas (like Naomi Campbell) have to be twice as good as their competition in order to get booked to offset the inevitable drama that goes with it. If you market yourself as a diva, you can't be disappointed when people don't hire you because of it (whether you actually are a diva or not).