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WindSpirit
06-20-2011, 12:37 PM
Okay well we're doing exactly what you've been preaching we should not do so :lol: Hardly. But the fact that you ignored most of my points has been duly noted.

You feel you're on a mission, reason is obviously not going to solve it.

Jenny
06-20-2011, 02:03 PM
I think the difference is that Johnny gets slammed for his personal life more than his skating. There is always the homophobia agenda lurking too, which adds to some people's defensiveness. I, personally, have no trouble with people who criticize if they do so with reason and moderation but there are a couple who are truly nasty. If you think we shouldn't reply to those people then there is no dialog and why have a forum.

Johnny's personal life is open for discussion, opinion and criticism because Johnny has made it so with his reality show, his book, his Twitter postings and his interviews. That's the difference.

I have to disagree that there is "always the homophobia agenda." While I can't speak for every FSU member, as a collective group, the idea that FSU is at all homophobic is laughable. In fact, because FSU is open and liberal, with many gay members as well, I've found that gay issues - and jokes - are openly discussed in a very inclusive way. Further, I've found that just about every time the very notion of homophobia comes up, it's from someone defending Johnny.

If some posts are nasty - and I don't think it's nasty as much as snarky to the extreme - consider that it might be in response to the other extreme, which are the repeated and lengthy discourses on poor, persecuted Johnny.

REO
06-20-2011, 03:06 PM
Johnny's personal life is open for discussion, opinion and criticism because Johnny has made it so with his reality show, his book, his Twitter postings and his interviews. That's the difference.

I have to disagree that there is "always the homophobia agenda." While I can't speak for every FSU member, as a collective group, the idea that FSU is at all homophobic is laughable. In fact, because FSU is open and liberal, with many gay members as well, I've found that gay issues - and jokes - are openly discussed in a very inclusive way. Further, I've found that just about every time the very notion of homophobia comes up, it's from someone defending Johnny.

If some posts are nasty - and I don't think it's nasty as much as snarky to the extreme - consider that it might be in response to the other extreme, which are the repeated and lengthy discourses on poor, persecuted Johnny.

I agree with everything you say except for the statement that there is "always the homophobic agenda." When I mentioned that I was only referring to a couple of posters whom I wonder about. Certainly not the majority around here. I guess I shouldn't have used the word always. It seemed to freak some people out. I meant that in any critcism of his life outside of skating or his clothes etc you "always" have to consider if that is coming from someone who does not like him simply because of who he is. And most times I agree it's not. Like I said up thread a ways, there are times I cringe at his outfits or hairdos. I find that people read into what you say what they want to hear not necessarily what is actually written. ;)

Prancer
06-20-2011, 03:23 PM
I meant that in any critcism of his life outside of skating or his clothes etc you "always" have to consider if that is coming from someone who does not like him simply because of who he is.

But why? Or rather, to what end?

You can't read minds in person, much less over the internet. One of the reasons many of these discussions go awry is that so many people try to identify motivations and underlying psychological reasons for why people post as they do--and I include calling people "ubers" in this.

Taking what people say at face value and trying to determine whether there is or isn't merit to it is hard enough--but discussions tend to run more smoothly that way rather than degenerating into these back-and-forth arguments about who REALLY means what.

WindSpirit
06-20-2011, 03:25 PM
I agree with everything you say except for the statement that there is "always the homophobic agenda." When I mentioned that I was only referring to a couple of posters whom I wonder about. Certainly not the majority around here. I guess I shouldn't have used the word always. It seemed to freak some people out. Please stop that fake Dr. Phil talk. "There must be something within you that you feel is not right and I can sense it in you even if you can't."

BTW, it doesn't freak us out. We're just telling you you're full of it.


I find that people read into what you say what they want to hear not necessarily what is actually written. ;) That's exactly what you do.

Justathoughtabl
06-20-2011, 03:47 PM
Each side has tried to read the other's motivations and meanings. Each side has tried to tell the other what to do. However, only one side has gotten angry about the whole thing. Or maybe I'm just biased. :D

Prancer
06-20-2011, 03:50 PM
Each side has tried to read the other's motivations and meanings. Each side has tried to tell the other what to do. However, only one side has gotten angry about the whole thing. Or maybe I'm just biased. :D

I would agree that only one side has gotten mad. I just don't think we are talking about the same side.

Cheylana
06-20-2011, 05:27 PM
I would agree that only one side has gotten mad. I just don't think we are talking about the same side.
I think only one side has gone mad :P

REO
06-20-2011, 07:20 PM
But why? Or rather, to what end?

You can't read minds in person, much less over the internet. One of the reasons many of these discussions go awry is that so many people try to identify motivations and underlying psychological reasons for why people post as they do--and I include calling people "ubers" in this.

Taking what people say at face value and trying to determine whether there is or isn't merit to it is hard enough--but discussions tend to run more smoothly that way rather than degenerating into these back-and-forth arguments about who REALLY means what.

You are right in what you say. It's just difficult when you feel what you've said has been misunderstood not to reply back.

REO
06-20-2011, 07:27 PM
Please stop that fake Dr. Phil talk. "There must be something within you that you feel is not right and I can sense it in you even if you can't."

BTW, it doesn't freak us out. We're just telling you you're full of it.

That's exactly what you do.

Well I can totally see that you're not taking this too seriously. Dang!

polett
06-20-2011, 10:13 PM
It's always someone else's fault, isn't it? A reasonable, intelligent non homophobic person could never ever think Johnny can be an annoying twit, could they?

No, they could not. Unless they're deliberately trying to sound unreasonable. :slinkaway

Prancer
06-21-2011, 05:38 AM
You are right in what you say. It's just difficult when you feel what you've said has been misunderstood not to reply back.

I understand that, but that's not the same thing as trying to figure out the real reason why people don't like Johnny and whether or not they are homophobic.

I don't think most of us can explain why we REALLY do or do not like people, much less why other people do. I do think that Johnny inspires such a response because he symbolizes something to people, but what that something is varies. And I don't think it pays to try to figure it out, either.

I realized a while back that Johnny reminds me very much of someone I used to know, and that my reactions to him are really reactions to that other person. It's not something you would ever figure out about me; you don't know me well enough. It took me a long time to figure it out for myself.

It's not just Johnny. The strong visceral reactions to Rachael Flatt, for example, indicate to me that she also symbolizes something to people. I don't know what it is, exactly, although sometimes I wonder if she is some sort of stand-in for all the "less worthy" people who have somehow gotten ahead at the expense of some posters, but I don't think that's true for all of them or even most of them, and I don't know which ones it is true for, if any.

And in the end, no matter why they dislike Rachael or Johnny or whoever, the bottom line is that they dislike them, period.

polett
06-21-2011, 06:32 AM
I don't think most of us can explain why we REALLY do or do not like people, much less why other people do.

It's not just Johnny. The strong visceral reactions to Rachael Flatt, for example.
And in the end, no matter why they dislike Rachael or Johnny or whoever, the bottom line is that they dislike them, period.

I love you, I dis you, I could be wrong, Prancer! :rofl:

aftershocks
06-24-2011, 10:22 PM
REO, I think I love you. Yep, I'm not you. I’m your uber! :saint:


OMG you're right! It must be catching. I stand corrected but agalisgv is right. And no, Val, aftershocks and I not the same person. Actually I'm really posting double as overedge and REO so my two natures can war with each other. lol

Please, please do not tell me you are overedge’s other half. :rofl:

RE the back-and-forth on “the gene pool” comment. It originated from mmscfdcsu’s #15 post, in GSD’s “Johnny will not compete …” thread, and my quoting mmscfdcsu in that thread is just an example of my throwing back a stinger – but it seemed to have stung elsewhere. :D

REO quoted it… and then I did too, with a slight word change, only I neglected to put the phrase in quotes, silly me! Doubt I could have come up with that original zinger all on my own. Sorry to disappoint, overedge.

Not that I’m making fun of anyone’s serious, well thought out, sincerely expressed comments, but this thread somehow reminds me of musical chairs, and of the childhood game of whispering in someone’s ear and seeing how by the time the words have been whispered one to the next down the line into 20 separate kids’ ears, the original words come out completely different in a crazy, kaleidoscope kinda way.

@antmanb re your post #287 in this thread: “… I’ve given [Johnny] crap on this board for being closeted…” Oh well, I have seen this expressed before on Internet sites, not necessarily just on FSU either -- but, Johnny “closeted.” When? Do you mean b/c he didn’t call a press conference to confess being gay, after he won his first Nationals? Who among the many gay skaters in figure skating (besides Rudy Galindo) have ever confessed to being gay during their eligible career? What is it exactly that makes you describe Johnny as having been “closeted”? Not to start anymore arguments: just askin’. IMHO, Johnny has often taken the heat for being a “flamboyant” [;) term for gay] outspoken skater, and as a result some of the more rigid attitudes regarding how gay skaters should present themselves on the ice, have become a bit more relaxed.

If Johnny ever wandered into this thread, which I doubt, I can imagine him having a huge laugh and/ or shaking his head incredulously. Johnny to Tara: “Wow, what rhymes with polarizing.” :ROFL: Doubt Johnny has the time to waste time here though. He’s probably too busy thinking of the next “polarizing” thing he can do or say. He’s just so d**n ‘polarizing.’ Seriously, I doubt Johnny intentionally tries to be polarizing. He just tends to do and say what he wants. That’s how he lives his life, which is enough I guess to make him a polarizing figure. The term, btw, reminds me of another even more public figure often described as “polarizing,” Hillary Clinton. Hmmm those “polarizing” people can be so annoying, with the way they go about movin’ and shakin’ things up, and changing the world. In Johnny’s case, the very insular world of figure skating. Believe it or not, like him or not. Things is what they is. Excuse my grammatical incorrectness, and also my unfortunate usage in a previous post here of the term, “level the playing field.” Definitely a wrong choice of words, as truthfully, who cares about a “level playing field”? That’s so boring, and unrealistic.


... I don't think most of us can explain why we REALLY do or do not like people, much less why other people do. I do think that Johnny inspires such a response because he symbolizes something to people, but what that something is varies. And I don't think it pays to try to figure it out, either.

I realized a while back that Johnny reminds me very much of someone I used to know, and that my reactions to him are really reactions to that other person...

Ahhhh, thanks Prancer. I believe you are on to something.
And your thoughts remind me of what I have said here many times before: these “polarizing” discussions end up not being about Johnny after all, but instead, are reflective of who we are.
As I expressed in the similar GSD thread: Thanks Johnny! We barely knew ye.

Hope my comments are not too “repeated and lengthy a discourse” for ya Jenny, “on poor, persecuted Johnny.” That Johnny fella! When will he ever get a life…? Hmmmm, maybe a cue for many of us to get up from the computer screen, and take a good, long look in the mirror, eh?


I think only one side has gone mad :P
IMHO, the whole world has gone mad. Perhaps this thread is just a infinitesimal microcosm of that fact… Alright, alright, anyone I’ve managed to offend: I speak for myself and my own individual perceptions, misperceptions, likes, dislikes, and human frailties... Back to my mad den :slinkaway

Justathoughtabl
06-25-2011, 03:43 PM
Johnny will be in the cast of Fantasy on Ice on July 2&3 in Fukuoka, Japan. Cast includes Lambiel, Verner, Ando, Oda, and more.