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antmanb
03-18-2011, 03:24 PM
I think there's a difference between "diva" in the sense Johnny is saying: i.e., having your own ideas and standing up for yourself (positives) and "diva" in the sense that people here are talking about: i.e., being a jerk, talking back to management, not getting along with others, which I really don't associate with Johnny. Johnny has been on tours before and I've never heard a story about him being difficult. COI asked him back every year until they went out of business. Skate for Hope is having him back. Kings on Ice is having him back. Skate for the Heart had him back. Figure Skating in Harlem is having him back. I remember watching "Kaleidoscope" with Scott Hamilton in December, and Johnny came out to say a few words of thanks to the audience. Scott Hamilton introduced him by saying, "And now for something completely different!" After Johnny said his heartfelt words ("Thank you guys for coming. It really means so much" or something else entirely un-diva-like), Scott saw him off by saying, "Well that's great. That's just sooooo great," dripping in sarcasm. So I think people just can't let go of their dislike of Johnny.
But it's not worth it to keep arguing for him. He doesn't need it. I'm a fan, and I recognize he's not perfect (my favorite people in the world are complex and flawed), and I'm glad he's around and skating and inspiring people.

From what i've seen and read about Johnny he knows exactly what diva means, sometimes its serious, often it's in a jokey Tyra Banks/Drag Queeny way. Either way I don't think Diva is either/or of the two options you gave it's a combination of both. I wouldn't say being a diva equlas being a jerk, I think the sometimes negative diva behaviour is being petulant, possibly a little entitled....either way, like I said there is no doubt in my mind that Johnny would own the title of Diva and not be as troubled by someone calling him that as you apparently are.

taf2002
03-18-2011, 09:09 PM
I mean, really. What do you think about what he wrote for the Japanese fans?

I'm actually a fan of Johnny's. But what he wrote for the Japanese fans has nothing to do with anything. I've seen posts on this board that are just as or more touching and wonderful as anything Johnny had to say. The fact is, a person who didn't feel sympathy at this time for the Japanese people would be totally hardhearted.

Justathoughtabl
03-18-2011, 11:30 PM
I'm actually a fan of Johnny's. But what he wrote for the Japanese fans has nothing to do with anything. I've seen posts on this board that are just as or more touching and wonderful as anything Johnny had to say. The fact is, a person who didn't feel sympathy at this time for the Japanese people would be totally hardhearted.

:confused: Ummm...the subject of this thread is Johnny news, quotes, and articles. I posted a Johnny quote, if you will. Because no one else was. I was expressing surprise that no one...or maybe only one person...had anything to say about that, and that instead, people continued to argue about something Johnny did in 2006. This thread disintegrated into Johnny criticism three posts in. My point in all this is just to say that about 90 percent of the Johnny posts I've seen on this board (admittedly, I've only been reading it for a few months) are negative, and if you knew nothing about Johnny's gifts, his personality, etc, you'd think he was just a jerk who had very little to contribute to figure skating. So I thought I'd throw in my two cents. I know he's a polarizing figure, but it seems to me that the bashers are just as hard-headed and stubborn as the people who think he's God's gift. I'm trying to strike a middle ground. But I'm going to stop posting here because it's just futile.

taf2002
03-19-2011, 12:50 AM
The fact is that any uber of a skater isn't going to be happy with multiple opinions about their skater. A skater specific board for Johnny's fans would provide you a place to gush without encountering opposition. You are as welcome here as any skating fan but you have to expect that not everyone is going to agree with you here.

REO
03-19-2011, 03:05 AM
I'm actually a fan of Johnny's. But what he wrote for the Japanese fans has nothing to do with anything. I've seen posts on this board that are just as or more touching and wonderful as anything Johnny had to say. The fact is, a person who didn't feel sympathy at this time for the Japanese people would be totally hardhearted.

I think her point was that the person who wrote that cannot be the completely self involved, bedside table criminal who has no redeeming attributes and has not grown as a person since he was little more than a teenager. Of course you're right about everyone's feelings for the Japanese people.

Jenny
03-19-2011, 01:25 PM
I think her point was that the person who wrote that cannot be the completely self involved, bedside table criminal who has no redeeming attributes and has not grown as a person since he was little more than a teenager.

One thing I've seen on this board and all these discussions is that everyone who has actually met and spent time with Johnny sees him as a nice, normal person who is gracious to fans and good to his friends and family - I don't think anyone has ever disputed that.

What comes into question most is some of his behaviour in the rink and out - much of it from his own stories and quotes - and his career choices.

Of course Johnny is self-involved - most elite skaters are, and many of us are too. Yes he's a bedside table thief by his own admission, but where did anyone say he has no redeeming attributes and has not grown as a person since he was a teen?

Good people do bad things, smart people make stupid choices. Everything is not black and white/love Johnny or hate him.

REO
03-19-2011, 01:58 PM
Of course Johnny is self-involved - most elite skaters are, and many of us are too. Yes he's a bedside table thief by his own admission, but where did anyone say he has no redeeming attributes and has not grown as a person since he was a teen.

There is no direct quote. It's an attitude that some posters have. They seem to take any opportunity to point out that he's less than he should be. That's what makes his defenders crazy. For every realistic person like antmanb or yourself there are several people who seem to take it personally that Johnny is not your average bear and he won't do and say what they think every young man should.

overedge
03-20-2011, 12:55 AM
For every realistic person like antmanb or yourself there are several people who seem to take it personally that Johnny is not your average bear and he won't do and say what they think every young man should.

How do you know what other posters think? I don't see a lot of criticism of Johnny here for not being like "every young man".

From Jenny:


What comes into question most is some of his behaviour in the rink and out - much of it from his own stories and quotes - and his career choices.

^^this.

REO
03-20-2011, 03:01 AM
How do you know what other posters think? I don't see a lot of criticism of Johnny here for not being like "every young man".

I know what other posters think because they post their feelings regarding his choices and lifestyle not just in skating but also off ice. That's why we come here! You're a serial offender. This is a perfect example. Thanks! :D

overedge
03-20-2011, 06:11 PM
I know what other posters think because they post their feelings regarding his choices and lifestyle not just in skating but also off ice.

"Feelings regarding his choices and lifestyle" are not the same as criticizing someone because they don't act like "every young man".

Just to pick one example, I think a lot of Johnny's fashion choices would be horrendous on anyone of any age or gender.

REO
03-21-2011, 03:16 AM
"Feelings regarding his choices and lifestyle" are not the same as criticizing someone because they don't act like "every young man".

Just to pick one example, I think a lot of Johnny's fashion choices would be horrendous on anyone of any age or gender.

Maybe I'm dense but I don't see how they're so very different.

As for the fashion I must admit I tend toward more conventional togs myself. That's just a matter of taste. But admit that his clothes are not what the AVERAGE young man would wear. He's not just another sheep following the herd and that's why his fans love him.

aftershocks
03-21-2011, 10:00 AM
A lovely, heartfelt message from Johnny to the Japanese people. Thanks for posting, Justathoughtabl.

Johnny’s thoughtful words are obviously not unique under the present circumstances of what has happened in Japan, but they are uniquely his words. The only incongruity is the contrast of those sincere words within the context of this thread. “Insanity” is a good characterization for this thread, or maybe inanity, which also describes my giving in to the temptation of re-joining the fray.

:rofl: at the back-and-forth re kleptomaniac interior decorator Johnny bustling/ hustling through the Olympic village. WTF! I guess Johnny’s book has provided more than enough fuel to continue feeding some people’s ire.


Well I certainly agree that this poor old horse has been beaten to death. AND I agree that Johnny and SOI are a bad match. Certainly at this late date anyway. My problem is just with those who keep saying he would not be cooperative and would try to make the show all about him. Where do they get this stuff? Johnny's "diva-ness" is all about being campy and funny ... It's only a cadre American males who have a wild hair somewhere about him.

:respec: Thanks for offering some sanity here REO.


Absolutely. He milks it for all it's worth. :D It's mostly a facade though. He's very down to earth in reality - love of luxury items notwithstanding. (Real reality not the tv show. lol)

Yep, you nailed that conundrum.



... According to Priscilla her life was hell in Torino because they were constantly on HER back to make him give up his jacket that Totmianina had given him ...

:lol: Sorry REO, your phrasing re the good old/ bad old jacket affair -- the nonsense of it all (in addition to the over-the-top nitpicking nonsense in this thread) has me imagining how the jacket hell might have gone down in Torino. ;) My sympathies to Priscilla, as she didn’t deserve all the stress, but I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall when she and USFS reps were possibly (at least in my imagined scenario) screaming and tearing their hair out demanding that Johnny strip off that odious jacket. “JWe, take off that jacket right now, or else! This is the Olympics, you nuthead! Okay, JWe, look, you’ll get to go on a shopping spree right here in Torino, and we’ll buy you some new furs, some Christian Dior, some Louboutins and some Jimmy Choos, just puhleeze take off that jacket before you go out to the practice rink!” Silence. ”Please … pretty please.” Johnny petulantly shakes his head. He really loves that jacket. Johnny determinedly grabs hold of his beloved jacket even tighter, in full rebellion mode. :lol: And let’s not forget the bus affair – a last minute time change, with Johnny conveniently failing to be made aware of the change, or maybe he was made aware, but he was too busy trying to locate his aura. Divas must always bring their auras with them, or suffer the consequences. :slinkaway

Of course this jacket territory has been tread and retread so many times, it’s becoming treadworn, or threadbare, or thready. How about treacly? :P Anways, it is historically or traditionally not unusual for skaters to exchange uniforms at the Olympics (as Toller Cranston thoughtfully or maybe bombastically— :shuffle: recalls in one of his books). Sure Johnny probably shouldn’t have worn the jacket at practices in full view of the intrusive television cameras. Everyone knows those media types dislike divas. Duh! But, why pray tell are people still so up-in-arms about the jacket? :kickass:

A preposterous devil’s advocate notion: Why didn’t USFS calm down, think outside the box and use Johnny’s wearing it as an opportunity for him to be interviewed about why he was wearing it ;) [the why of it beats me – maybe he thought he looked fashionably hip, or he was in such a daze he forgot he wasn’t Russian, or he was rebelling and just being the Johnny we love to hate]. Perhaps there was an interesting non-diva-like reason involving his friend, Totmianina (oh let’s not blame her for his stupidity). Since it was the Olympics, why not use the incident to promote the sport as an inclusive family embracing all countries and cultures? The cold war is over, isn’t it? :D Oh wait, I can answer all my own silly questions for myself (since I’m probably just talking to myself anyway, not an outlandish feat in this thread): “Because it’s figure skating, you nuthead! It’s the most politically f***ed-up sport in the world.” Hmmm… another apt description for this thread.

zaphyre14
03-21-2011, 01:33 PM
everyone who has actually met and spent time with Johnny sees him as a nice, normal person who is gracious to fans and good to his friends and family - I don't think anyone has ever disputed that.
.

I'll dispute that. "Normal" is a word that I've rarely heard ascribed to Johnny Weir and certainly not as an attribute he aims to achieve.

He is good to his fans, I'll give you that.

REO
03-21-2011, 08:23 PM
"Be Unique!" (Or join the haters on FSU lol)

aftershocks
03-21-2011, 08:37 PM
One thing I've seen on this board and all these discussions is that everyone who has actually met and spent time with Johnny sees him as a nice, normal person who is gracious to fans and good to his friends and family - I don't think anyone has ever disputed that. What comes into question most is some of his behaviour in the rink and out - much of it from his own stories and quotes - and his career choices.

Of course Johnny is self-involved - most elite skaters are, and many of us are too. Yes he's a bedside table thief by his own admission, but where did anyone say he has no redeeming attributes and has not grown as a person since he was a teen? Good people do bad things, smart people make stupid choices. Everything is not black and white/love Johnny or hate him.

That's thoughtful and shows there can be some middle ground here. But as zaphyre's views below indicate, the middle ground is never fully reached when it comes to Johnny. As REO said, these Johnny threads become all tied up, blown up and predictable with comments from those who either love him or hate him (and others claiming to be neutral, and/or former fans who can't stop giving him the attention they feel he craves and actively seeks). I doubt Johnny is at all interested in the over-the-top attention found in FSU threads about him. Interestingly, there are posts in this thread that accurately point out how views about Johnny deteriorated on FSU and became more and more snarky over the past several years (and there were always some here who never liked him). Thoughtful middle ground and good-natured ribbing aside, Johnny threads seem to descend very quidkly into a swamp-like twilight zone.


I'll dispute that. "Normal" is a word that I've rarely heard ascribed to Johnny Weir and certainly not as an attribute he aims to achieve. He is good to his fans, I'll give you that.

RE your "dispute," you're surely not the only disputee. In fact, Johnny himself has said on a couple of occasions I can recall that he's glad his parents have one "normal" son in his younger brother. So, even Johnny doesn't see himself as especially "normal." Having grown up in Amish country Pennsylvania with a loving, normal upbringing, however, those who know him likely do realize that he is unpretentious, fairly grounded, down-to-earth, often sweet, funny, and very kind to everyone who sees beyond his playful, so-called diva-ish image.

From what I've read, heard and witnessed, I agree with REO, that some of the way Johnny acts is a rebellious facade. As I previously mentioned, I feel Johnny is very attuned to people's emotions and he responds to people in the same way they respond to him. Some people respond to Johnny with acceptance, love, admiration and understanding, while others respond with umistakeable dislike, wary uncomfortableness, know-it-all snarkiness, outrage, and exaggerated perceptions. He is how everyone individually sees him based on the fact people perceive him according to who they are and how they view the world.