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olympic
03-06-2011, 06:04 AM
Didn't Jill fall on a death spiral one year when W&O were at Worlds?

Getting off the subject for a bit, but I preferred Watson's pairing with Burt Lancon to her pairing with Oppegard. Here's one of W&L's 1984 performances at Sarajevo: Short Program. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq6hHB2_h_g) (Tried to link to their long program, too, but can't get the link to work!! Their helicopter lift in their LP is spectacular!)

Okay, back on subject: Yeah, I would have liked for W&W to have stayed together for a while longer. Lots of potential.

I think Jill fell on the Death Spiral in '85 Worlds? They finished 4th overall and it was her first year with Peter [Burt retired after '84; they were injured during '84 Worlds and had to withdraw during the SP I think?]

Yes! I remember thinking W/L were one good pair when I saw them at Sarajevo where they finished 6th overall. How long were they together? Any comps before Sarajevo? They didn't seem to be together long at all yet they did really well at the Olympics.


ETA - Here was W/L's disastrous SP at '84 Worlds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l454WYxAG_U&feature=related

From the commentary, they had only been together for 18 months prior, which means their 6th place at Sarajevo was something else!

briancoogaert
03-06-2011, 08:06 AM
4 minutes of Maleguena :scream: ... :lol:
Exactly the same music as Surya Bonaly in 1989 and Kristi Yamaguchi in 1992 !!! (just 30 seconds more in the middle.)

I am really impressed by them.

CaptCrunch
03-06-2011, 02:23 PM
Didn't Jill fall on a death spiral one year when W&O were at Worlds?

Getting off the subject for a bit, but I preferred Watson's pairing with Burt Lancon to her pairing with Oppegard. Here's one of W&L's 1984 performances at Sarajevo: Short Program. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq6hHB2_h_g) (Tried to link to their long program, too, but can't get the link to work!! Their helicopter lift in their LP is spectacular!)

Okay, back on subject: Yeah, I would have liked for W&W to have stayed together for a while longer. Lots of potential.


Funny you should mention Watson/Lancon. Their LP in Saravejo is one of my all-time favorite LP's in pairs skating. Loved it. There was a romantic quality to their skating that is absent in almost all other pairs. Technically the program was very easy (the sbs jumps and only 1 throw) but from an artistic and presentation viewpoint I loved it. I was so disappointed that Burt quit after the 84 season. However, I did become a big fan of W/O over the next 4 years. They were a very glamorous couple.

CaptCrunch
03-06-2011, 02:31 PM
Hopefully this works. Watson/Lancon's LP from Sarajevo.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyGRFlSOhN4&feature=related

skatesindreams
03-06-2011, 02:33 PM
For anyone interested:

Watson & Lancon (USA) - 1984 Sarajevo, Pairs LP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyGRFlSOhN4

CaptCrunch beat me to it!

olympic
03-06-2011, 05:57 PM
Funny you should mention Watson/Lancon. Their LP in Saravejo is one of my all-time favorite LP's in pairs skating. Loved it. There was a romantic quality to their skating that is absent in almost all other pairs. Technically the program was very easy (the sbs jumps and only 1 throw) but from an artistic and presentation viewpoint I loved it. I was so disappointed that Burt quit after the 84 season. However, I did become a big fan of W/O over the next 4 years. They were a very glamorous couple.

I think the reason I preferred W/L to W/O was the fact that they seemed to gel as a couple more. Perhaps it was the less height difference, but they just seemed to interact better. I loved the innovations, too.

orbitz
03-06-2011, 06:04 PM
W/O had the beauty and the big tricks but you're right that they never really gelled as "two people skating as one." The big height difference, the unmatched body lines, and the mirrored jumping were distracting, imo.

easilydistracte
03-06-2011, 06:39 PM
Thanks for all the links, y'all!

Here's the music that W&W skated to in that pro comp back in the 1990's: Pie Jesu. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qRSo-h6JBw&feature=related)

I wish there were video of the actual performance. It was quite lovely. If I remember correctly, Gillian was dressed extremely simply in a plain white dress, white tights and white skates while Todd was in all black. The program flowed beautifully.

Seerek
03-06-2011, 07:26 PM
Wachsman and Waggoner probably should have stayed 1 more year because I think the named skater rule would have sent all of them, Yamaguchi/Galindo and Seybold/Seybold to the 1989 World Championships.

I think the key event that kind of skewered the judges favor was probably the 1987 US Nationals LP where Watson/Oppegard skated a great LP and Wachsman/Waggoner kind of made a mess of the LP.

The United States were in retrospect quite fortunate to have 2 top 5 pairs teams at the same time.

judgejudy27
03-06-2011, 07:47 PM
W&W would have no problem beating both Y&G and S&S at the 89 Nationals IMO. Especialy the Seybolds who they never had problems beating before and who skated poorly at the 89 Nationals. So how many spots the U.S had for the 89 Worlds would be a moot point for them, they had nothing to worry about. And with how atrocious the field at the 89 Worlds was in pairs they would have won the silver if they just had a decent competition.

overedge
03-06-2011, 07:47 PM
W/W were a really inconsistent team. More often than not their performances were disappointing. They pretty much bombed at both 86 and 87 worlds before getting it together and skating well in 88. They should have won US Nationals in 1988. Their win in 86 was a big surprise. They really didn't skate much better than the favorites and defending champions Watson/Oppegard but for some reason, in a time when the favorites always got the benefit from the judges, W/O didn't that day and W/W ended up winning in an upset.

IIRC this win was discussed in a book (I think it's Christine Brennan's first one) as an example of judges "holding up" skaters. I know there are a lot of flaws with this theory and it's pretty subjective, i.e. people tend to think that another skater has been "held up" if their own favourite loses, but in the competition which this book discusses, W/W fell quite a lot and still ended up winning.

I have to say, looking at the videos that have been linked here, that pairs was a lot more impressive to watch when skaters didn't have to go through a gazillion moves in each element to get maximum points. There is something to be said for skaters holding a position long enough so that the viewer can appreciate the beautiful lines and the strength and skill it takes to do such difficult moves well.

easilydistracte
03-06-2011, 08:03 PM
Just found this on youtube: W&W's Exhibition at 1987 NHK Trophy (www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bad7VG8h_I). Their pro comp program was very similar to this program. (Some of the commentary is kind of gushy :lol:.)

olympic
03-06-2011, 08:24 PM
W&W would have no problem beating both Y&G and S&S at the 89 Nationals IMO. Especialy the Seybolds who they never had problems beating before and who skated poorly at the 89 Nationals. So how many spots the U.S had for the 89 Worlds would be a moot point for them, they had nothing to worry about. And with how atrocious the field at the 89 Worlds was in pairs they would have won the silver if they just had a decent competition.

...and who knows how much of an influence that would've had on them to stay until Albertville '92: There was a window of opportunity to be an undisputed top pair w/ Y/G splitting after '90 and the Seybolds disappearing [whatever happened to them]

Maximillian
03-06-2011, 08:45 PM
I think that W/W did not get along well personally, which might have contributed to their premature retirement.

Aussie Willy
03-06-2011, 09:13 PM
This is a nice thread.

I really like W&W's FS performance at 88 Worlds. I don't think they could have skated it better. And they did a great Malguena.