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antmanb
02-24-2011, 12:17 PM
If everyone skated cleanly Kim would easily win (anyone who thinks otherwise is clearly delusional, regardless of Worlds being in Japan), and Asada would be 2nd ahead of Ando. And I dont know on what planet Asada has the PCS edge over Kim, she hasnt gotten higher PCS than Kim in years, and even Ando is beating her on PCS in many recent competitions.

As delusional as someone saying if X skates clean they will win despite not having seen her skate competitively this season, not knowing what her programmes are like, not knowing what levels they might have called on their elements or knowing if there is any kind of injury or set backs yet?

Ant

Jenny81
02-24-2011, 01:10 PM
I agree since the only reason why ando won at 4cc was because mao made some small mistakes here and there, where ando was totally clean and even with her skating two clean programms she barely edged mao. if mao just didn't underrotate her 3t or her 3A in the sp that alone could have made her win the whole competition since mao in the first place was only a couple of points behind.


No need to discuss about this anymore.
Ando was totally clean but Mao made some mistakes at 4CC therefore Ando won. What's the problem?
'If Mao didn't make some mistakes.... / If Mao didn't underrotate her jumps... blah.. blah..
-> It is no use to say such a thing now.




not to mention if mao skates clean not only will hers tec be higher then andos but her pcs score is also higher then andos... and mao said in a recent intervew that she would like to include a 3-3 in her layout and if she does that I don't see miki standing a chance. besides mao is known for having very diffecult layouts in general but especially at worlds where she normally doesn't hold back...


Mao always said that she would like to include 3-3 combo in her layout and want to rework her nemesis jumps (lutz and salchow) every year.
Ando said that she also would like to include 3-3 combo and quad salchow in her layout every year.
I dont' trust their announcement at all.
They both didn't keep their word until now.




and ando winning national was only because mao at the time was barely getting used to her new jumps, and didn't give it her all by not including a 2A-3T and 3-3 combo.. where miki on the other hand just loaded her program with tripples in the second half so that she get 10 % bonus.. and if you look at mao's nationals and 4cc programs the difference on the jumps is really visible.


Japan nationals is same as 4cc situation.
Ando was clean but Mao did make some mistakes and not including some difficult combo in her layout at national.
Therefore Ando won. No problem at all.




I think if mao skates two clean program she wil win since she has the edge when it comes to tec and pcs score, and kim and ando will likely take silver and bronze.


What it means 'clean program' to you?
Has Mao ever did 'two clean program'?? at least once in her life??
(without any kind of fall, downgrade, cheat)
If so, pls let me know. I'll check it out with protocol.
Thanks in advance.

I mean.. it is not easy for Mao to make 'two clean program'.
Also Mao's jump skill is not good compared with Kim and Ando.

Well.......Nobody know what will happen in Tokyo anyway.
Just waiting for the day.
We'll see.

Amy03
02-24-2011, 01:42 PM
No need to discuss about this anymore.
Ando was totally clean but Mao made some mistakes at 4CC therefore Ando won. What's the problem?
'If Mao didn't make some mistakes.... / If Mao didn't underrotate her jumps... blah.. blah..
-> It is no use to say such a thing now.






Mao always said that she would like to include 3-3 combo in her layout and want to rework her nemesis jumps (lutz and salchow) every year.
Ando said that she also would like to include 3-3 combo and quad salchow in her layout every year.
I dont' trust their announcement at all.
They both didn't keep their word until now.






Japan nationals is same as 4cc situation.
Ando was clean but Mao did make some mistakes and not including some difficult combo in her layout at national.
Therefore Ando won. No problem at all.






What it means 'clean program' to you?
Has Mao ever did 'two clean program'?? at least once in her life??
(without any kind of fall, downgrade, cheat)
If so, ple let me know. I'll check it out with protocol.
Thanks in advance.

I mean.. it is not easy for Mao to make 'two clean program'.
Also Mao's jump skill is not good compared with Kim and Ando.

Well.......Nobody know what will happen in Tokyo anyway.
Just waiting for the day.
We'll see.

first of all I never said there was any sort of problem, I was simply saying how close the competition was at 4cc between asada and ando.. oh and I don't remember ever hearing in ANY interview that mao wanted to do a 3-3 without actually including it, mao had the the 3-3 in worlds 2007 fs, 2008 fs, 2009 sp as well as other competions. the only year where she didn't include one was in 2010... so I don't get where the heck you get every year from??? since she has had it every year since she became a senior except for last year..

well and I consider asada sp and fs at worlds 2010 as clean, with no big mistakes except one underrotation on the axel that one wouldn't notice with the naked eye.

loool and tell me which off mao's skills is not good compared to ando or kim... mao's spins and spirals are top notch and mostly get level 4. and her steps are fast as well as diffecult since she used the whole body... and when it comes to jumps mao has all the jumps including a 3A as well as 3-3.. and kim may have a huge 3-3 but her flip and salcow are her nemesis jumps and she also doesn't have a 3l . and ando is a good jumper but she doesn't have a reliable 3-3... and there is no need to get angry, since I just said my opinion and who I think has the biggest chance of winning worlds from looking at the jump layout certain skaters are going to attemt and looking at the pcs so far...

but well it's all speculation and in the end no one knows whats is going to happen, or who will make mistakes, but that doesn't mean that we can't talk and discuss certain matters... and if you feel insulted because not everyone has the same opinion as you well that's youre problem.....

Lookingood
02-24-2011, 02:30 PM
Miki vs Yuna vs Mao!!
Im already getting exciting!

Wish Joannie come back and beat them all!

smarts1
02-24-2011, 02:32 PM
Mao often does skate 2 clean programs back to back. It's Yuna who often has problems doing that.

Lookingood
02-24-2011, 02:46 PM
isn't it pretty much all ladies having problems doing back to back clean programs?

judgejudy27
02-24-2011, 02:55 PM
Mao often does skate 2 clean programs back to back. It's Yuna who often has problems doing that.

Please, when is the last time Mao ever did back to back to clean programs. The only ones who sometimes does 2 clean programs more than once every few years is Miki Ando and Rachael Flatt.

Jenny81
02-24-2011, 03:20 PM
Mao often does skate 2 clean programs back to back. It's Yuna who often has problems doing that.


Two clean programs (SP/LP) of Mao?? :confused: even often? :eek:
When? Where? What competition?? Pls let me know.
I'll check it out with protocol.
I'm sorry but i don't like a dirty protocol even though performance looks like almost clean.
Remember Sarah hughes thing.
This kind of thing is not clean performance at least for me.

I say this only by way of suggestion for your info.
Check it out [Ando/Kim/Rochette's protocol] vs [Asada / Nagasu's protocol] especailly Jump parts.
You can understand what i mean.
Thanks.

wonderlen
02-24-2011, 03:51 PM
No need to discuss about this anymore.
Ando was totally clean but Mao made some mistakes at 4CC therefore Ando won. What's the problem?
'If Mao didn't make some mistakes.... / If Mao didn't underrotate her jumps... blah.. blah..
-> It is no use to say such a thing now.

Mao always said that she would like to include 3-3 combo in her layout and want to rework her nemesis jumps (lutz and salchow) every year.
Ando said that she also would like to include 3-3 combo and quad salchow in her layout every year.
I dont' trust their announcement at all.
They both didn't keep their word until now.

Japan nationals is same as 4cc situation.
Ando was clean but Mao did make some mistakes and not including some difficult combo in her layout at national.
Therefore Ando won. No problem at all.

What it means 'clean program' to you?
Has Mao ever did 'two clean program'?? at least once in her life??
(without any kind of fall, downgrade, cheat)
If so, pls let me know. I'll check it out with protocol.
Thanks in advance.
.

ITA. What's done is done and we should wait until Tokyo to see how the competition will play out!! Too many if and but....

miki88
02-24-2011, 04:04 PM
I thought this thread was about Mirai. But it's turning out into the usual debate....:scream:

wonderlen
02-24-2011, 04:04 PM
Two clean programs (SP/LP) of Mao?? :confused: even often? :eek:
When? Where? What competition?? Pls let me know.
I'll check it out with protocol.
I'm sorry but i don't like a dirty protocol even though performance looks like almost clean.
Remember Sarah hughes thing.
This kind of thing is not clean performance at least for me.

I say this only by way of suggestion for your info.
Check it out [Ando/Kim/Rochette's protocol] vs [Asada / Nagasu's protocol] especailly Jump parts.
You can understand what i mean.
Thanks.

Only Miki has done more clean SP+LP in her career than Kim or Asada combine (no fall, < or any bobbles). Here are the list of her competition:

Skate America 2006: Gold
World Tokyo 2007: Gold
Japanese National 2008: Silver
Japanese National 2011: Gold
4CC 2011: Gold

Kim: only once at OLYM, Asada: none

So potentially we will never know who will beats out who, coz none of the three went totally clean and peak at same time in one major competition. One can assume based on the potential TES scores and PCS given out, but.....I think it will be great to see thou. One epic battle, where everyone skating clean...

wonderlen
02-24-2011, 04:13 PM
[QUOTE=Amy03;3088339]I agree since the only reason why ando won at 4cc was because mao made some small mistakes here and there, where ando was totally clean and even with her skating two clean programms she barely edged mao. [QUOTE]

Mmmm I don't think 5 points is barely edged in ladies skating. Sure its not run a way hit like Kims', but its more than enought when we consider points differ from last year world between 3rd place and 6th place or at GPF.

pinky166
02-24-2011, 06:19 PM
lool if there is anyone who is delusional it's going to be the ones who clearly haven't taken into consideration how the new rules are going to effect certain skaters... and some would say that the changes are going to have a minor impact on kim but that would be to quite underestimating it...

especially since asada now has all kind of jumps in her layout including a 3A 2a-3t and a 3-3. and with this kind of layout done clean not even kim or ando who both get pretty high goe's would be able to beat that... and with the programs asada has this season her pcs are going to be pretty high especially for the FS where she has awsome choreography and interprets the music very well.. beside her FS fits her like a glove, and I know that kim is going to score high on pcs she always does no matter what she does, but to be able to match maos this season it's going to be quite a challenge...

and ando beating asada on pcs is not true since maos pcs were higher at 4cc and well deserved...

Since when does Mao have a 3-3 this season? :confused: I haven't seen it. The 3a is sort of back and she's added a 3s into her arsenal and started doing the 3lz again, but she still flutzes it. And I think Mao's weakness compared to Miki and Yuna is that she won't get the same GOE on the jumps as they do. She's reworking her technique this season and it seems to have made her jumps temporarily weaker. Her 2a-3t is not reliable, she had issues getting that combo ratified in her jumping prime, while Yuna and Miki OTOH can do that combination very well.

And people are making it seem like the results at nationals and 4CC were closer than they were, Miki didn't "barely" beat Mao, sure she didn't win by a landslide, but she had a nice margin of victory over Mao at both competitions.

Further, I don't know if we can expect Mao to skate better at Worlds than she did at nats and 4CC because this is Mao we are talking about and she really didn't make big mistakes at either competition. Mao was clean enough at both events that if it was really obvious she was better than Miki, she would have won anyways, just like Yuna often won over a well skating Mao or Miki or Rachael, etc even with mistakes. Clearly, the judges don't see Mao as being far superior to Miki, so I expect the results between the two will be close at Worlds if they both skate well. Obviously it can go either way, but I don't think Mao is heavy edge to Miki this season considering she's going through a regrouping year and Miki's huge jumps are back and is on a bit of a roll recently.

LongTimeLurker
02-24-2011, 06:20 PM
Maobots and Yunabots and Mikibots, oh my!

burntBREAD
02-24-2011, 06:20 PM
isn't it pretty much all ladies having problems doing back to back clean programs?

Pretty much. Even those who are good on not underrotating jumps (Rochette) often have pops or troubles, and if one is saying clean as in executing every jump and spin to the highest level without any bobbles, then there haven't been many at all.. :shuffle:

Also, for me, it appears that COP rewards risk over consistency, and we now see ladies with more demanding and ambitious programs, so it's not that surprising.