PDA

View Full Version : Jump Combination Question



Pages : 1 [2]

Spinner
02-20-2011, 04:47 PM
I thought this counts as a 1axel-3sal combo, or did they change the rules?

I know, but I'm wishing they'd give it a higher value due to its difficulty, hence driving more skaters to try it. I haven't seen one competed since Nicole Bobek at '95 worlds.

floskate
02-20-2011, 04:58 PM
So a Colledge is classed as a single axel? :confused: That makes zero sense to me when it's a completely different jump and to land directly onto a back inside edge and take off immediately into a sal is obviously very difficult to do yet it's worth less points on paper than a triple sal double toe! It's such a shame that great moves like this aren't encouraged more.

Back in the '70's a few skaters experimented further with one foot jumps in combo's. Robin Cousins used to do amazing combinations using 1.5 flips, one foot double sals etc and Brian Pockar tried a one foot triple sal to double flip as his SP combo when the required jump in the combination was the flip.

So I have a question for the FSU CoP experts. If a skater attempted a one foot triple sal into triple flip combo (theoretically possible), is there even a classification for it and how would it be marked? Also is there any current recognition of other jumps which have fallen by the wayside such as double inside axels?

Spinner
02-20-2011, 05:11 PM
So I have a question for the FSU CoP experts. If a skater attempted a one foot triple sal into triple flip combo (theoretically possible), is there even a classification for it and how would it be marked? Also is there any current recognition of other jumps which have fallen by the wayside such as double inside axels?

^This! Sometimes I feel we've COP-ed all the originality out of jumping with the fear of wasting an element on something like that listed by floskate.

Louis
02-20-2011, 05:28 PM
I know, but I'm wishing they'd give it a higher value due to its difficulty, hence driving more skaters to try it. I haven't seen one competed since Nicole Bobek at '95 worlds.

Bobek splatted on hers. I think she did a one foot axel-double salchow in the qualifying round. IIRC, her only successful with this combo was at 1994 Skate America, when she did a one foot axel-triple salchow-double toe combination.

Krisztina Czako did this combination, I think in 1996, and Emily Hughes also did it as a junior skater. I believe she landed it the year she went to Junior Worlds.

chipso1
02-20-2011, 05:50 PM
I thought a 1-foot Axel didn't exist in COP? :confused: Wouldn't it be marked as a 1A<< if someone attempted it?

Spinner
02-20-2011, 06:02 PM
Bobek splatted on hers. I think she did a one foot axel-double salchow in the qualifying round.
I know. That's why I said "competed", not "landed". ;) She nailed one beautifully in the LP warmup though.

smarts1
02-20-2011, 06:03 PM
^ It does. It's just a single axel.

gkelly
02-20-2011, 11:03 PM
The technical panel handbook (http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-197593-214816-125742-0-file,00.pdf) explicitly states


Landing on another foot
All jumps may be landed on either foot. The call goes for the jump, independent of the landing foot. Judges will evaluate the quality in their GOE.

(Listed jump takeoffs only -- walley and "inside axel" are not listed jumps.)

The exception was the one-revolution jump from a standard loop takeoff landed on the back inside edge of the other foot ("half-loop" or "Euler").

Before this year, the half-loop was just considered a nonlisted jump in all instances. When used between two other jumps, in turned the element into a jump sequence.

This year the rules changed so that when connected to other jumps, this jump is now considered a single loop jump and subject to the same rule about Landing on another foot, quoted above, as any other jump, and

The rules for one-foot axel under IJS, alone or in combination, have never changed. Originally there were no explicit rules about landing on another foot; the current rule, quoted above, has been in place for a few years already.

Those rules just don't give enough points to this element to make it worth skaters' while to include it in place of a higher value jump that could fill the same slot. Hence no one bothers to use it.


Leaving the evaluation of quality up to the judges means that if a skater lands on the wrong foot by mistake, the judges can give minuses.

If the skater lands on the back inside edge of the "opposite" landing foot, with flow, with or without a salchow (or flip) afterward, the judges can give pluses as warranted. Maybe some judges would consider the back inside landing difficult enough that they would give +1 just for just adequate quality.

But the base value for such a solo jump or combination is probably too low to be an incentive for skaters to choose to learn and include that skill. If the Powers That Be want to encourage it, they'd need to build in an incentive.

seabm7
02-21-2011, 12:31 AM
The technical panel handbook (http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-197593-214816-125742-0-file,00.pdf) explicitly states


Thanks for the book!