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milanessa
02-12-2011, 02:30 AM
Seriously, read this article. You'll love it. It's one of the most interesting pieces I have ever read in a newspaper (if you are a book and library nut, anyway):

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/id...e_early_years/




The article's gone. :(

Prancer
02-12-2011, 02:43 AM
It might be just me, but I have a very visual memory and can picture where something is in a book and how it looks on the page. You can't do that with an e-book

Why not? I can see not seeing where it is in the book, but why not on the page? I do the same thing (or did when I was young and still had a functioning memory); I haven't tested the visualization application :P yet, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

I find that when I read on the computer, I don't READ; I skim. And I am so conditioned to doing this that when I have something to read on the computer, I have a hard time making myself actually read it instead of skimming for highlights.

I don't have that problem with my e-reader, but in terms of studying on one....


One of the gripes had to do with writing compare and contrast essays where they needed to be working from two different texts, both on the same Kindle. The other problem was margin notes, which weren't as easy as doing it with a pencil.

I can't speak to the margin notes, as I NEVER write in books. If I'm annotating something print for research, I write my notes on a sticky note and stick it to the page. I think it makes specific information a lot easier later when I go looking for it and I simply can't bear to deface a book.

I've been doing research online for a long time and I use online tools for annotations and such, and so I am used to typing my notes in rather than writing them and using them later. It did, however, take me a while to get used to this, and I think it would take even longer with a Kindle.

But the single page view (or double, if you have an iPad) is considered a huge flaw in e-books in terms of study use and it is almost impossible to use JUST an e-reader for study purposes, or for research. There's a reason that people have piles of material when they do research work; you go back and forth between texts. A lot of study requires the same. If all you have to do is read assignments in a single textbook, an e-reader is useful, but if you have to do a lot of back and forth, it really isn't.


The article's gone. :(

The link isn't working; it was before :confused:

Oh, well, trying again: http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/11/28/information_overload_the_early_years/

gkelly
02-12-2011, 02:47 AM
Pop-up books just won't have the same impact in e-form.

milanessa
02-12-2011, 03:01 AM
The link isn't working; it was before :confused:

Oh, well, trying again: http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/11/28/information_overload_the_early_years/

Thanks. :)

Prancer
02-12-2011, 03:08 AM
Pop-up books just won't have the same impact in e-form.

Don't have much faith in augmented reality, eh?

Civic
02-12-2011, 03:22 AM
...I may have, erm, gotten into several (very) heated arguments about my disdain for e-readers :shuffle:. I love the feel and smell of books, plus the physical sensation of turning pages. It's part of the whole experience...

There is a sensual side to experiencing books that e-reader supporters overlook. The way a brand new book smells, the way the pages feel when you flip through them. A well-stocked bookstore or library is a sensual pleasure for me just as walking in a beautiful garden is. I just don't get that from e-readers. Also, I'm a big browser. It's much easier to browse through a book than an e-reader, imo.

kwanfan1818
02-12-2011, 03:35 AM
What about the "digital divide"? If everything is an ebook that requires an ereader, tablet computer, etc...to read, we are heading for a society where access to reading materials is only for certain segments of the population. People who are living hand-to-mouth are not going to have access to the technology necessary to read. People who live in isolated areas without access to broadband internet are going to be left out of the digital revolution as well.
Many, many people living hand-to-mouth have TV and cable. Whether an e-reader will be a priority is another question.


Even if the cost goes down to that level, we still have to make sure people have access to broadband and wireless technology in order to be able to use them. And will families be able to have multiple ereaders even at low prices to allow children adequate access to reading outside of school? And if we start talking about the world beyond the U.S., it gets even more complicated.


There are two types of Kindles: one type requires wifi. The other downloads books via wifi or 3G satellite service built into the device for downloads. The 3G service went from 30 countries to 100 countries and territories in the last year.

Part of the economics of eBooks is protectionism for the brick and mortar shops and large distributors. When other competitors joined the market, including Barnes and Noble and google, major publishers refused to license to amazon.com unless they raised the prices of ebooks. Barnes and Noble, for example, is one of the major distributors and one of the remaining large chains, as well as a major eseller of physical books.

I remember reading an editorial in "American Management Association" magazine when ecommerce began to become organized. I don't remember the exact figures, but the text read something like, "If X% (I think 5) of sales go from brick and mortar to ecommerce, nothing will happen, but if it reaches Y% (I think 10), there will be blood in the streets." Once the paradigm shifts, the game of protecting brick and mortar will be over. Most publishing has such a low profit margin, and the old model will be impossible to justify to shareholders.

topaz
02-12-2011, 04:24 AM
You both do realize that we're talking evolution, not revolution, yes?

The question for me is not HOW people will read in the future, but IF. It may very well be that we have no reason for books in any form because no one reads them.

I completely agree. In fact, I read that reading is up from like a 10 years ago. I think will continue to read book, magazines and other mediums just not "traditionally".

Prancer
02-12-2011, 04:45 AM
Part of the economics of eBooks is protectionism for the brick and mortar shops and large distributors. When other competitors joined the market, including Barnes and Noble and google, major publishers refused to license to amazon.com unless they raised the prices of ebooks.

Apple and Amazon are locked in battle at the moment because Apple wants a 30% cut of all ebooks sales to iPad. Right now, if an iPad owner buys a $10 ebook from Amazon, Amazon gets $3 and the author and publisher split $7 however they've worked it out. Apple wants $3 per $10 sale.

Since Amazon doesn't want to raise its prices any more (cheapness being their claim to fame, and B&N ready to pop the champagne if they do raise their prices), they will either have to raise the prices just for Apple users (which Apple has said they will not find acceptable), or they will pull their Apple app. As of now, it looks like they are leaning toward pulling their Apple Kindle app.

Wheeeeee!

okb1947
02-12-2011, 05:46 AM
In honor of my 64th birthday, I offer my book argument. I learned to read before I started school--on the lap of whichever adult would read to me. (my grandfather read me the farm futures, but it didn't matter--an adult I loved was sharing with me!!)

The OZ books could never be the same to me without John R Neill's art.

I shared my love of reading with my niece and nephews (and their children) by reading Dr. Seuss to them--middle nephew was SHOCKED that no one else in his college speech class was even acquainted with Sneetches!! I cannot imagine sharing Seuss without the pictures.

Some things are easier to find electronically--but I would not trade sharing books and passing that joy along for anything.

Prancer
02-12-2011, 06:16 AM
In honor of my 64th birthday, I offer my book argument. I learned to read before I started school--on the lap of whichever adult would read to me. (my grandfather read me the farm futures, but it didn't matter--an adult I loved was sharing with me!!)

The OZ books could never be the same to me without John R Neill's art.

I shared my love of reading with my niece and nephews (and their children) by reading Dr. Seuss to them--middle nephew was SHOCKED that no one else in his college speech class was even acquainted with Sneetches!! I cannot imagine sharing Seuss without the pictures.

Some things are easier to find electronically--but I would not trade sharing books and passing that joy along for anything.

About three weeks ago, I picked up my friend's three year old, parked him on my lap, and read some Dr. Seuss to him from my e-reader, complete with pictures (why do so many people think there are no pictures in e-books?).

I didn't let him have my reader the way I MIGHT have with a book, but I don't think the experience was all that different.

kwanfan1818
02-12-2011, 08:00 AM
Since Amazon doesn't want to raise its prices any more (cheapness being their claim to fame, and B&N ready to pop the champagne if they do raise their prices),
The initial pressure from the publishers is why amazon.com has a little note for those publishers' books that they price was set by the publisher, to be sure the audience knows its was pressured into setting the price that high.


they will either have to raise the prices just for Apple users (which Apple has said they will not find acceptable), or they will pull their Apple app. As of now, it looks like they are leaning toward pulling their Apple Kindle app.
Right now I read books on my iPhone because it is more convenient than schlepping around another device, but if the Apple Kindle app is pulled, I just won't read books on any Apple product, and the marginal incentive to buy an iPad just went out the window.

Anita18
02-12-2011, 09:21 AM
Why not? I can see not seeing where it is in the book, but why not on the page? I do the same thing (or did when I was young and still had a functioning memory); I haven't tested the visualization application :P yet, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.
Probably depends on what it is. I'm a science major and a lot of science figures would not fit on an e-reader screen unless you zoomed in (if you can, I'm not sure if you can) and that sort of ruins the visual memory placement. :P

My coworker got a Kindle for Xmas and I was surprised at how small it was. I can definitely see it working beautifully for pleasure reading if you wanted to have a lot of books on you at one time, but I don't think it would work for me as a reference book. As it stands, I don't even think an iPad would work as well as a physical textbook. The screen resolution and size is still a limiting factor for that. Only the iPhone 4 has anything close to print resolution, but it's tiny. :lol:

rfisher
02-12-2011, 11:27 AM
But the single page view (or double, if you have an iPad) is considered a huge flaw in e-books in terms of study use and it is almost impossible to use JUST an e-reader for study purposes, or for research. There's a reason that people have piles of material when they do research work; you go back and forth between texts. A lot of study requires the same. If all you have to do is read assignments in a single textbook, an e-reader is useful, but if you have to do a lot of back and forth, it really isn't.



We used Elseiver's electronic textbooks. They carry the majority of radiography texts. When you buy the bundled package, you can move between texts on the computer. They tout the fact that you can do a search of all your texts. The concept was great. Create your own notes in class and integrate it with the text, use multiple sources for study, etc., etc., etc. The biggest problem seemed to be the students thought it was 1. too much trouble, 2. too difficult to set up (only 1 out of 20 even bothered), 3, you had to have your computer with you to study (this wouldn't work on an ereader) and they still lugged around all their books. You could even highlight material in the text but apparently you couldn't get that high from making your page yellow. The Elseiver rep told me it hadn't been a successful venture anywhere as of now. However, the electronic texts probably will replace paper and students will be forced to deal with them. I'm sure if that's the only option people will cope, but it's not a reader/student choice. It's the publisher's choice.

Hannahclear
02-12-2011, 01:29 PM
You both do realize that we're talking evolution, not revolution, yes?

When books were first published, most people couldn't afford them. It was a long time before they could. Not that a lot of people could read, then, either. Aren't you glad that mass printing forged ahead anyway?

No one is going to pack up all the books and burn them. Publishers are still printing, libraries are still open, bookstores still sell books. Even if the publishers stop printing, there will still be millions of print books around for people to read. They won't vanish. It's going to take a while. As technology improves and people upgrade, they will donate their used e-book readers just as they donated books, and there will be groups that underwrite e-readers to schools and organizations--there are already are.


Exactly. I don't think libraries are going anywhere soon and I don't want them too. I borrow many many books. But you can't stop human technological progress. No one has been able to do that for over 5000 years. It's just how it is. And chances are, it won't be bad.