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luCN
05-04-2011, 09:43 AM
What scares me is that Artur resembles too much to 28 years old Plushy not 17 y.o Plushy. :eek:

oh my!:eek:you make me :rofl::rofl::rofl: and forget everything I want to say to rely OMG :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Artifice
05-04-2011, 10:54 AM
Chan has incredible skating skills. I must admit that with him I've learned what is REAL skating skills ! Other top skaters, whose I used to find SS quite beautifull, now look crappy compared to Chan.

I hope to see SS at this level in the future, it's so what SS is really about. With that level I can even accept some lack of charisma or personnality so much that the skating is enough in itself to get :wideeyes::swoon:

Ziggy
05-04-2011, 12:42 PM
Yes, Mishin is clueless and his students can't skate. Plushenko, Yagudin, Tuktamesheva have no skating skills.:rolleyes:

Only Chan has skating skills. In fact, he is the one who invented this sport.

It might come as a shock to you but the world isn't black & white. ;)

millipied
05-04-2011, 12:56 PM
It might come as a shock to you but the world isn't black & white. ;)

Your world is.:)

AYS
05-04-2011, 01:00 PM
Please, give Gachinsky a break. That's his first Worlds. There is plenty of time to get polished. He has everything else in spades. Like Chan had everything when he came on stage:(
The thing with Chan is, he didn't have the jumps down when he first came onto the scene, but he already had superior skating skills. Seeing him for the first time live at the 2007 Skate America was quite breathtaking in that regard.

Gachinsky is the opposite, but it remains to be seen how much he can improve on the SS part of things. I wouldn't expect to ever see him on Chan's level for basic SS - who is really quite special in that regard - or Kozuka, but hopefully he can improve substantially. As for his choreographic package, well, there is no accounting for taste, I guess.

Fashionista
05-04-2011, 01:00 PM
Pairs and Ice Dance have relaxed rules because it often is impossible to find a partner in your country.

No, there's another reason. Ukrainian federation amicably released Volosozhar and thus she had to sit out only 1 year. But Japanese federation will no way release Miki so according to ISU rules she'll have to sit out 2 years to change the country.

millipied
05-04-2011, 01:07 PM
Most elite skaters are special in something and very few work hard to get great in everything. We had an abundance of amazing skaters in different areas but failed to achieve certain things they hoped for. In the end, it all comes down to being in the right place, in the right time, in the right shape. The rest is pure luck.
Gachinsky has long way to go. Let's take a seat and watch how far he can get before declaring the results.

senorita
05-04-2011, 01:15 PM
Kurt Browning said in 2002 Olys that Plushenko has amazing and fast feet (i suppose he didnt mean in beauty) and many commentators were gushing about his ss over the years and up to 2006. For his era and demands of it he had pretty good skills. Btw Mishin teaches a good camel, I always liked his students camels, fast and centered with great position, the rest of spins nope. Gatsinski looks improved than Plush spins, but they look somehow not beautiful, but I can say that for the world champion as well.Elisaveta improved her spins a lot since last season, in speed and position, some videos i ve seen Mishin is not teaching spins now, some other coach in his team does.

Gatsinsky live at World Juniors was very impressive and crowd pleaser, but too clumpsy. I liked a lot a junior programs of his, in 2008 Gp i h seen it, Narcissus. Nevertheless I think it is irelevant to compare Gatsinsky or anyone for that matter apart from Kozuka maybe and Daisuke to Chan's flexible ankles and such edges, his skills have no match and Chan is one and kind in this area, work and talent together, any other skater in that department looks inferior.

nro
05-04-2011, 01:56 PM
No, there's another reason. Ukrainian federation amicably released Volosozhar and thus she had to sit out only 1 year. But Japanese federation will no way release Miki so according to ISU rules she'll have to sit out 2 years to change the country.
I'm pretty sure all single skaters have to sit out two years, even if their federation decides to release them.

Domshabfan
05-04-2011, 01:58 PM
I'm pretty sure all single skaters have to sit out two years, even if their federation decides to release them.

In pairs if both the partners decides to compete for another country(still competing as a pair) they will have to sit out 2 years, that is my understanding.

Ziggy
05-04-2011, 02:59 PM
Your world is.:)

In my posts I have mentioned both postive and negative aspects of Mishin's coaching and Gachinski's skating. So how is it black and white exactly?

Nobody is saying that Gachinski can't improve. What some people are pointing out is what he's lacking at this precise moment in time and you're reacting extremely defensively to it.


No, there's another reason. Ukrainian federation amicably released Volosozhar and thus she had to sit out only 1 year. But Japanese federation will no way release Miki so according to ISU rules she'll have to sit out 2 years to change the country.

When released single skaters have to sit out one year and pair and ice dance skaters two years.

But yes, as Domshabfan says it's only one year if the partners decide to represent a country that one of them used to represent previously. Otherwise, it's two.

kwanfan1818
05-04-2011, 05:33 PM
No, there's another reason. Ukrainian federation amicably released Volosozhar and thus she had to sit out only 1 year. But Japanese federation will no way release Miki so according to ISU rules she'll have to sit out 2 years to change the country.
The number of years is set by discipline: one year for pairs and dance skaters, if the team skates for the fed of the other partner, and two for singles or if both switch. The waiting year(s) is/are calculated from the last competition skated for the original federation, not from the date of release. For Volosozhar, this was mid-February 2011, one year from the time she last skated for Ukraine in the 2010 Olympics, not a year from her release by the Ukrainian Fed.

My understanding is that a skater can not be held by a federation if s/he is a citizen of the new country for which s/he wants to skate. Since it usually takes a long time to get citizenship, it is possible for a federation to refuse to release a skater by the time the year/two years is over. For example, USFS can refuse to release a skater for most of an Olympic cycle if that skater had high enough results.

If the Ukranian Fed had refused to release Volosozhar, and she didn't have Russian citizenship, she could not have skated for Russia in the competition at which she and Trankov fulfilled the minimum score requirements, at Moscow Worlds, or in the future until the Ukrainian Fed released her or she obtained Russian citizenship, whichever came first. She had both in time to qualify with a minimum score.

Fashionista
05-04-2011, 07:57 PM
Thanks for correction!

Asli
05-04-2011, 10:47 PM
(Summarising from Vaitsehovskaya's article.)
*I/K's result at worlds is basically a "failure."

It's incredible how expectations cloud perceptions.

I/K have just shattered the record of best placement by Russian juniors at their Worlds debut. I/K placed 7th. The previous best finish by a Russian junior world champion couple at their first worlds was 13th by Bobrova/Soloviev. Domnina/Shabalin were 15th, the wonderful Romaniuta/Baratsev were 16th and of course the charismatic but no-teknik junior world champions Romanovskaya/Grachev were deservedly 23rd in 2006. ;)

The previous best placements by a junior couple from any country in their Worlds debut were: 6th for V/M and 7th for D/W. I/K have a similar result with 7th. Among the other recent junior WCs, Samuelson/Bates debuted with 11th place and Chock/Zuerlain have just debuted with 9th place. Only the Shibutanis have finished better than anyone before.

Of course I/K failed to skate their free dance well, but it's important to still keep in mind how well they have done overall. :)

kwanfan1818
05-04-2011, 11:36 PM
I understand your point, but Romaniuta/Barantsev's and Domnina/Shabalin's debuts took place under Hurry Up and Wait 6.0, and Domnina/Shabalin, at least, were solidly Russia #3 behind Lobacheva/Averbukh and Navka/Kostomarov. Samuelson/Bates were clearly US #3 behind Belbin/Agosto and Davis/White, and they skated for no-politik coaches.

Virtue/Moir and Davis/White set the standard in 2007 for Junior World Champions and medalists with several years in the CoP system when making senior debuts. In addition the Shibutanis were World Junior silver medalists in 2009 and soundly beaten by Chock/Zuerlain, and they dropped to 4th in 2010; Ilinykh/Katsalapov beat them decisively by 20 points. In Moscow, with one phase dropped completely, the Shibutanis scored 163.79, well in the range of 162.15 (2009)-168.35 (2010) of what they scored in three phases at Jr. Worlds, while Ilinykh/Katsapalov were over nine points behind them with 154.50.

Add that to being described in very high terms with very high expectations all year, the advantage of the Kerr's dropping out of the competition, and the disappointment with their results all year, and I/K's skate is described as disappointing. I thought they did an amazing job for their senior debut.