View Full Version : From Russia With Love - 3

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03-22-2011, 05:27 AM
I also much prefer the Euro dress to the GP dress. I think Bobrova looks a lot better in sleeves in general, and allows the shapes (http://visualrian.com/storage2/PreviewWM/8503/58/850358.jpg?1296286536) she makes with her arms (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/European_2011_Ekaterina_BOBROVA_Dmitri_SOLOVIEV_2. jpg/399px-European_2011_Ekaterina_BOBROVA_Dmitri_SOLOVIEV_2. jpg) to stand out (http://visualrian.com/storage2/PreviewWM/8503/63/850363.jpg?1296286493) better against the ice. In the GP dress, her arms kind of disappeared against the ice (http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/gallery_images/photos/000/615/442/GYI0062548040_crop_450x500.jpg?1290293300).

I also agree that the rose detail didn't work on the GP dress, and along with the coloring, I thought it all felt a bit too "frilly" and soft for the melancholic feel of the dance.

I would just get rid of the fold that goes around the collar. Even though I think Bobrova's arms are a strength, her shoulders and upper back are a bit of a weakness and anything that draws attention to that area should go. The fold detail already draws attention, but when they skate it also flaps around a bit along the back.

But I like the length of the dress and the way it moves, I would just lighten on the layers of the dress and take maybe an inch off. It's a tad heavy as is.

The all black costume for him is an improvement over the lacy white one too.

I see your point. But can she at least change the color?
(I think we should have an Ice Skating fashion section of the forum just for this stuff)

03-22-2011, 09:17 AM
Ksenia was born in St.Pete and moved to the US when she was 8 y.o.

03-22-2011, 10:21 AM
I love the Euro dress and the color.The dance being kind of melancholic as it is, I can't see another color except if Ekaterina wore black and Dmitriy red :lol:And the black shirt looks so much better.
The GP dress and shirt made them one with the ice, plus for me it emphasized how young they really are and they didn't need that for this dance.But I want her to leave her hair loose for once...Pretty please...
And you can see her arms when she were sleeves.The same always applied to me for Tessa Virtue as well.I always prefer her in sleeves because of her arms movement.
But all those heavy dance dresses ...They seem too risky to me.I don't know if the new dance trend is to wear all these layers..

03-22-2011, 11:25 AM
I love the Euro dress and the color.The dance being kind of melancholic as it is, ..

That FD is zzzzzz.It's nearly as slow as G/G O FD :lol:

03-22-2011, 11:38 AM
That FD is zzzzzz.It's nearly as slow as G/G O FD :lol:

Bobrova/Soloviev's speed on the ice is quite good actually, much improved from last year IMO. Now they are one of the faster teams and are able to keep their speed through the footwork. :)

If you mean the rythm of the music, it is medium rather than slow. It being zzzzzz or not is subjective of course.

03-22-2011, 03:33 PM
Simonenko talks to Lakernik about the JW results (http://rian.ru/interview_sport/20110320/356041971.html)
Lakernik: it's not the right time to fight.

While the ISU is busy deciding whether the worlds will take place and if so - where, the juniors have finished their season two weeks ago with the JW in Korea. Andrey Simonenko spoke to the vice president of the Russian figure skating federation, the head of the ISU singles/pairs technical committee Alexandr Lakernik.

AS: The juniors season ended with the scandalous win of the Chinese pair Sui/Han in Korea, while the Russians Stolbova/Klimov were much cleaner that the `champions'.
AL: I wouldn't go as far as calling it a scandal. The short programme placement was fair - the Russians made a mistake in one of the elements. The LP result was influenced by the reputation of the Chinese pair and the subjectivity of the sport. Perhaps Stolbova/Klimov should had won the LP, but probably not overall. The gap between them and the Chinese was 5 points. It's quite a lot. But I think the most important outcome of the season in junior skating is the fact Stolbova/Klimov were very much liked. They showed fast, powerful, complicated pair skating - exactly what the pair skating should be. In my point of view they are one of the pairs we aim with to Sochi.

AS: I can't avoid going into the details: the Chinese skater doublefooted the throw jump in the LP. The GOE varied between -2 to +2. Please comment on that.
AL: +2 is wrong, of course. It's a mistake. It should had been marked as -1 or -2. Even 0 is wrong in that case.

AS: There were 0 and +1. Is it blindness or bias?
AL: A bit of both. Of course it's a mistake at any case. Had she landed on the right foot and touched with her left - then indeed the 0 and even +1 would be acceptable. BTW, that was the case on the trainings several times. But at the competition the landing was clearly doublefooted, which is a certain -2. But the thing is that the quad throw is an expensive element. Even with a negative GOE it gives a huge boost to the final mark. So both of their costly mistakes when Sui fell on her jumps they compensated with that throw - they are performing the quad, the rest only the triple. And of course, the split twist - their was a triple with positive GOE, while the Russians only performed an average double. What I'm trying to say is even with blindness and bias the technical mark for Stolbova/Klimov and Sui/Han should had been more or less the same.

AS: How do you explain then the 2nd mark that was so much higher for the Chinese despite two falls?
AL: It's wrong and I can't explain it. With the mistakes the Chinese made Stolbova/Klimov should had beaten them in the 2nd mark. But apparently they lost a bit.

AS: This `we don't understand why we lost' goes on the whole season, as was mentioned many times by the pair coach Ludmila Velikova.
AL: The Chinese pair has a reputation. Ours don't yet. Stolbova/Klimov beat Sui/Han just once and then when they should had gained the reputation they made mistakes and lost. So if Stolbova/Klimov keep skating well the reputation and the marks will come. I understand how hurt the skaters and the coach are by the results in Korea, but there was nothing criminal in Chinese gold. Let me repeat - Stolbova/Klimov should had won the LP, but they had no chance to clear the margin of 5 points from the SP

AS: How did the Chinese manage to promote so well the new pair just within 1.5 years
AL: It's their only pair with some potential for the future. The rest are either nothing to write home about, or, I reckon, will retire till Sochi. Hence the Chinese put a lot of effort in promoting that pair. Of course having the GPF in China helped. Sui/Han were third there. There is a rumour they will not hold for too long though. I heard the girl is used as a training aid - she puts the helmet, some protectors and is used to train the quad throw. We'll see how that works out. Of course, I know some think their skating is a circus. But let me tell you - it looks good. It's interesting, the audience likes it. Their skating skills are questionable though.

AS: They are just galloping around.
AL: Not only they are galloping, but they are mediocre in that. But again, for me it is much more important that our pair showed a satisfying skating. And the potential for Sochi. It happens too often that we win the junior championships, then get to the seniors and.. nothing. We need to show some results starting the next season in the major seniors competitions if we aim to win anything in Sochi. Stolbova/Klimov should be considered as Sochi participants. I have to mention that in their debut GP - Skate America Stolbova/Klimov were marked high by some judges and low by the others. After the competition the referee supported the decision of those who marked them high. And it was a referee from Canada, a country, where, let's put it mildly - our skaters are not most loved. So now it's not a good time for the scandals, we have to think of the future. We have 6 pairs on the top level. We need to hold them all till the Olympics so we have a choice.

AS: Can you comment on the men juniors result? I know that not all the coaches were satisfied with the marks their students received in Korea.
AL: I dont' want to argue with anyone, but I think our guys didn't show anything worthy at the championship. The only one who looked decent at the SP was Arthur Dmitriev jr. Moreover, he was quite good at the qualification - becoming 3rd while skating with a broken hill - his boot broke at the training. Fortunately his father Arthur Drmitriev sr was around and fixed the hill somehow. It was only fixed well later. He wasn't in a good enough shape to skate his LP well though. I have to admit - right now we don't have any male skaters who can be considered serious competitors. It's a sad fact.

AS: So you don't consider neither Dmitriev jr., nor Gorshkov nor Jan Bush to be a potential Sochi medalists?
AL: Right now - no. Dmitriev is the strongest technically. We'll see what becomes of Arthur Gachinsky, but all and all - right now the men skating is our weakest link.

AS: Unlike the ladies who won this season everything that was possible to win.
AL: Yes, and I would like to mention that next season both Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva will participate the senior Grand Prix, even though they can't compete at senior worlds. We will do everything within our power to allow them to participate two competitions each. Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva are our Olympic hope. Of course it's hard to say right now whether anything will become of them - the female physiology is unpredictable.

AS: But you think they should start getting ready mentally even now
AL: Sure. What;s there to wait for? By the time they reach the age of 17, which, I think, is the best for the Olympics participation - they will be tough.

AS: You do not consider Polina Shelepen an Olympic hope?
AL: Frankly - I don't think she has as much potential as Sotnikova or Tuktamysheva. But there are other good skaters: Roza Scheveleva is a great skater. Polina Agafonova. There are others. Right now everything is quite well in the ladies field. And going back to your not understanding Stolbova/Klimov's marks I'd like to mention the ladies didn't skate too well either. Adelina was cleaner, Liza was kind of a mess. But no one even considered undermarking them since they have a reputation. So my only advice to the others is skate well during the season. Then you will be marked accordingly.

AS: Many specialists note Sotnikova's notorious wrong edge at the Lutz. Will it hurt in the future?
AL: It might. And she should work on that. She didn't receive any deductions for it yet, but she has to fix that problem.

AS: The last question is on ice dance. Monko/Haliavin and Pushkash/Gureiro won the gold and the silver. But there was a chance to have a Russian sweep had Sinitsina/Zhiganshin, who were 2nd in the JGP participated...
AL: Indeed. But, unfortunately, they were ill and couldn't participate the nationals. We considered allowing them participating the worlds nevertheless, but first it would be unfair towards the pair who became third at the nationals and were 2nd in one of the dances. Second - they didn't recover completely by the time of the worlds. So we couldn't really predict how well would they skate. At the end we were first, second and sixth. I reckon we wouldn't end up with a sweep anyway. At the best case it would be first, second and forth. I'm sure the judges would come up with a scheme not to award us the 3rd medal.

brrrr... Simonenko is sort of hysterical and rude in his interview. He sounds pretty much like most of the Russian press with `we were robbed, everyone hates us, the judges are blind!'. For some reason I thought of him higher....

03-22-2011, 04:33 PM
Thanks for the interview Tahbka.. Very interesting points about junior results and glad to know both Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva will skate in the Senior Grand Prix.

03-22-2011, 04:40 PM
Good interview and detailed questions and answers. Looks like he will not get swept up in any hype about any skaters at all! He may say some were robbed but mostly it comes off as almost like an impartial observer- though he is not at alll!

Dave of the North
03-22-2011, 05:15 PM
And it was a referee from Canada, a country, where, let's put it mildly - our skaters are not most loved.

Of course we love Russians here...:2faced:

let`s talk
03-22-2011, 05:24 PM
AL: It's wrong and I can't explain it.

I actually find it quite confusing. I could understand very well if such an answer came from a coach, or a skater, or a fan. But when the Chair of the Single&Pair Skating Technical Committee speaks about the judges' decision as a wrong one, I am not sure I follow. Isn't it ISU's, including Mr.Lakernik, job to make it right? Like holding some seminars for judges where they explain them things? Or having proper guidelines, or whatever? Am I missing something? :confused:

03-22-2011, 06:00 PM

But no one even considered undermarking them since they have a reputation. So my only advice to the others is skate well during the season. Then you will be marked accordingly.

03-22-2011, 09:58 PM
Well I agree that the judges seem over-enamored with Sui/Han. Their marks are a tad bit high especially in the PCS marks, JMO. Nothing outrageous that I would call blatant cheating, but a point here-and-there, a few +1 that should have been 0, -1 and there you go.

While I admit the team is hugely likable with her personality and the "smallness", "cuteness" factor, but I don't think this should allow the judges to ignore skating skills, unison, two-footed landings, and overall sloppiness.

In spite of my personal feelings, I never thought their marks could be indicative of China's politiking. But this interview does make me wonder...

03-22-2011, 10:33 PM
I didn't see anything in the score for neither the short program or the free that would indicate China didn't deserve to win. The only thing I would have taken issue with is the +2 and -2 on th 4T, it was neither. The rest of the scoring for both S/H and S/K looked pretty accurate. If people are going to be that picky then most of the scores for all the skaters could be scrutinized like that.

I think S/K need time to cool off and reassess their choreography and make changes accordingly.

03-22-2011, 10:48 PM
I think S/K have great choreography, lots of transitions and original moves - so do Sui/Han. Their unison, maturity and skating skills are far superior than the Chinese. Earlier, I thought their speed was a lot less, but they seemed to have improved a lot in this area.

I agree that they should have won the LP if not overall.

03-22-2011, 11:36 PM
I think S/K have great choreography, lots of transitions and original moves - so do Sui/Han. Their unison, maturity and skating skills are far superior than the Chinese. Earlier, I thought their speed was a lot less, but they seemed to have improved a lot in this area.

I agree that they should have won the LP if not overall.

They may have great choreography but it's not doing them any favors in the scoring department.

S/H has a base value of 52.02, S/K only 48.88. All things being equal they would be 3.14 in the hole right off the bat.

S/H got mostly 1-2-3 and S/K got mostly 0-1-2. S/H had a slight two footed landing but it was on a quad worth 8 points and they got 7.57 for it. The highest throw S/K had was their 3FTh but it only got them 6.90. Had they moved that element a few moves down they would have got the bonus. Same with the 3T+2T+2T and/or the 5ALi4, it just came to early to get the maximum points they could have got. S/H had 4 elements with bonuses worth 23.98, S/K only 3 worth 12.98)

Some shuffling of the choreography they already had would have done wonders, that and performing it better. There was only a 2.46 difference on the total fs score so with changes in the choreography they would have made it up. The PCS difference was only .81 so S/H were too far ahead with that score.

In the short they were behind 1.68 in PCS and a bad 3TTh made the difference in the rest to go into the free almost 5 points behind. The base values in the short were the same.