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luCN
02-25-2011, 01:20 AM
Because the Paektusan Festival is political. It is a glorification of a repressive dictator.

I'm sure that if there had been a skating exhibition organized in the U.S. a few years ago to pay tribute to George W. Bush and "liberation" of Iraq, there would have been a bigger outcry than there is over Paektusan.

By the way, don't skaters like Verner and Pechalat & Bourzat have agents who are supposed to help them make decisions about things like this and avoid any unfavorable publicity?

I think it's a regular ice show in NK,it has been hold for 20 years.and seems goverment or amy officers didn't attend the show this year too.and none of the skaters take photos or chatting with the officers or Kim.so the show can see as a normal show...

which I can't understand most is why Tomas Verner is singled out while acctually Plushenko is the biggest star(and he seems is in Russia Amy,once saw a photo of him in army uniform with decorations),and P/B has a better results in competitions then him....

Squibble
02-25-2011, 05:53 AM
I think it's a regular ice show in NK,it has been hold for 20 years.and seems goverment or amy officers didn't attend the show this year too.and none of the skaters take photos or chatting with the officers or Kim.so the show can see as a normal show...

which I can't understand most is why Tomas Verner is singled out while acctually Plushenko is the biggest star(and he seems is in Russia Amy,once saw a photo of him in army uniform with decorations),and P/B has a better results in competitions then him....

The whole point of the festival is to celebrate the birthday of Kim Jong-Il To put it in your terms, imagine something back during the cultural revolution to celebrate the birthday of Mao Zedong. It's pro-government propaganda, regardless of whether any government functionaries show up

It's Verner's tough luck that he got singled out, but it was bound to happen to someone at some point. And I'm not surprised it was he. A few years ago, he said something about how he was not gay but "normal," so it appears that he's a bit tone-deaf as to how people might perceive things he says and does.

let`s talk
02-25-2011, 07:28 AM
Plushenko is the biggest star(and he seems is in Russia Amy,once saw a photo of him in army uniform with decorations
Technically he is not in the Army, I mean he is not a professional military. He is a reservist like the majority of Russian men since the military sevice of 1 year is mandatory there.
www.photowoman.narod.ru/1.html (Plush in a military uniform, down the page)

A few years ago, he said something about how he was not gay but "normal," so it appears that he's a bit tone-deaf as to how people might perceive things he says and does.
I assume you are speaking about his interview that he gave in the Czech language in 2007: http://sport.idnes.cz/odpovedi.asp?t=VERNER2 . He was speaking to a Czech journalist for a Czech public. Something tells me that neither me nor you are qualified to judge how the people he was speaking for might perceive the things he said. Any Czech native speakers around? It could be that the Czech word "normalni" was one of the nicknames for straight people in that language and at that time. On FSU there were more than enough cases when the words of skaters or posters were misinterpreted by some English speakers just because they forgot about cross-cultural and linguistical differences.
The thing that in my opinion looks special is that the Czech word "normalni" in the interview is written in the capital letters "NORMALNI" and with the exclamation mark, which clearly indicates his perception of this question. But I think it's pretty understandable. When a straight guy is repeatedly asked if he is a gay or not just because he is very handsome, sooner or later it will piss anyone off. If all handsome guys were gays, what the world would do. :confused:


Tomas and Brian, you are handsome men who love beautiful women!

And we love you too!!!!!!!!!

:cheer2::cheer2::cheer2::cheer2::cheer2:

:encore::encore::encore::encore::encore:

kia_4EverOnIce
02-25-2011, 11:08 AM
It could be that the Czech word "normalni" was one of the nicknames for straight people in that language and at that time. On FSU there were more than enough cases when the words of skaters or posters were misinterpreted by some English speakers just because they forgot about cross-cultural and linguistical differences.

I agree completely, though I don't think "nickname" is the best term, but more of linguistic habits and different connotation in different languages.

Hedwig
02-25-2011, 11:09 AM
Thanks for the interview, Tabhka. I really like M/R. They have such a classical look on the ice.
If they get more consistent they might be a spoiler for one of the spots in the future but it is gonna get even harder in Russian pairs. :eek:

iris81
02-25-2011, 05:17 PM
Today at Russian Cup Final Martyusheva had two falls in short program - from jump and from throw :( She looked really upset in kiss-n-cry :(

deedeelocks
02-25-2011, 05:33 PM
which I can't understand most is why Tomas Verner is singled out while acctually Plushenko is the biggest star(and he seems is in Russia Amy,once saw a photo of him in army uniform with decorations),and P/B has a better results in competitions then him....
Like Oubik said; because in Czech press, people were saying stuff like "Tomas Verner skated to entertain dictator Kim Jong-Il" and that it means that Tomas is supporting the regime. And then this minister starts to say that no 'normal people' attended and that it probably wasn't even on tv. (Tomas said it was and that they have only 1 tv channel anyway) A lot of crap was spreaded and lots of people reacted to that.



It's Verner's tough luck that he got singled out, but it was bound to happen to someone at some point. And I'm not surprised it was he. A few years ago, he said something about how he was not gay but "normal," so it appears that he's a bit tone-deaf as to how people might perceive things he says and does.
:lol: You take a quote from 4 years ago and base this opinion on that or what? :P (and do we really have to go into this discussion...again?) I think if Tomas really would be tone-deaf, you'd be surprised about the things he'd say :shuffle: :saint: :D

I don't think Tomas or his management could have foreseen THIS ammount of negativity. Especially since he talked about his participation in the show openly after Europeans (in Czech press) and noone said a WORD about it back then. If people feel so strongly about his participation, why didn't they try to stop him from going there at that point!?

hanca
02-25-2011, 05:56 PM
Technically he is not in the Army, I mean he is not a professional military. He is a reservist like the majority of Russian men since the military sevice of 1 year is mandatory there.
www.photowoman.narod.ru/1.html (Plush in a military uniform, down the page)

I assume you are speaking about his interview that he gave in the Czech language in 2007: http://sport.idnes.cz/odpovedi.asp?t=VERNER2 . He was speaking to a Czech journalist for a Czech public. Something tells me that neither me nor you are qualified to judge how the people he was speaking for might perceive the things he said. Any Czech native speakers around? It could be that the Czech word "normalni" was one of the nicknames for straight people in that language and at that time. On FSU there were more than enough cases when the words of skaters or posters were misinterpreted by some English speakers just because they forgot about cross-cultural and linguistical differences.
The thing that in my opinion looks special is that the Czech word "normalni" in the interview is written in the capital letters "NORMALNI" and with the exclamation mark, which clearly indicates his perception of this question. But I think it's pretty understandable. When a straight guy is repeatedly asked if he is a gay or not just because he is very handsome, sooner or later it will piss anyone off. If all handsome guys were gays, what the world would do. :confused:


Tomas and Brian, you are handsome men who love beautiful women!

And we love you too!!!!!!!!!

:cheer2::cheer2::cheer2::cheer2::cheer2:

:encore::encore::encore::encore::encore:

I speak Czech.

You need to understand that in the Czech republic the level of political correctness is not the same as in USA or the UK. He says that he is 'normal' meaning that he is like the majority of population. It does not imply that he would think that the remaining monority is 'not normal'.

What a person says needs to be taken within a cultural context. For example, in the UK you call black person 'black', whereas somewhere in South Africa you apparently use the term 'coloured'. (at least that's what someone explained to me). It doesn't necessary mean that people in other country would be the racist, it means that different terminology is used and it is not worth trying to make up what he may have meant.

SwingDancer
02-25-2011, 05:57 PM
Let's talk more about this Russian Cup, and who competeed, and get back on topic, shall we?

Squibble
02-25-2011, 05:58 PM
If people feel so strongly about his participation, why didn't they try to stop him from going there at that point!?

Because it struck a nerve this time? Because back then people hadn't heard so much about mass starvation in North Korea? Because of the recent North Korean shelling of South Korean civilians? Because someone in the Czech Republic has a subscription to FSU and read unfavorable comments posted in archived threads about skaters who skated at Paektusan?

Does it matter?

Life sucks sometimes. Deal with it.

ioana
02-25-2011, 06:02 PM
And then this minister starts to say that no 'normal people' attended and that it probably wasn't even on tv. (Tomas said it was and that they have only 1 tv channel anyway) A lot of crap was spreaded and lots of people reacted to that.

Hmm, in case no 'normal people' were at the show, maybe this word does have a connotation of 'the majority/common' in Czech. In Romanian, 'normal' and 'common' can be used interchangeably, so maybe Czech is similar?

Trying to get back OT, what ISN'T normal is the amount of talented junior girls in Russia. If a third of them make it through puberty, Japan will have serious competition as a powerhouse in women's skating.

deedeelocks
02-25-2011, 06:02 PM
Because it struck a nerve this time? Because back then people hadn't heard so much about mass starvation in North Korea?
uh, I am talking about 3 weeks ago? :P


Hmm, in case no 'normal people' were at the show, maybe this word does have a connotation of 'the majority/common' in Czech. In Romanian, 'normal' and 'common' can be used interchangeably, so maybe Czech is similar?
Ah, sorry. The normal people comes from me. What I meant was that I gathered from Czech press is that they thought no regular people who have nothing to do with politics or the regime attended the show. :) I don't know exactly (anymore) which word they used.

oleada
02-25-2011, 06:05 PM
Trying to get back OT, what ISN'T normal is the amount of talented junior girls in Russia. If a third of them make it through puberty, Japan will have serious competition as a powerhouse in women's skating.

Rosa Sheveleva just won the Russia Cup final today, beating Makarova & Leonova easily. She's got great jumps and her presentation has improved tremendously. Her 3Lz is a cracker.

She'll be senior eligible next season, and she will definitely be in contention for the Euros & Worlds spots.

julieann
02-25-2011, 06:06 PM
Today at Russian Cup Final Martyusheva had two falls in short program - from jump and from throw :( She looked really upset in kiss-n-cry :(

I think she has a confidence problem, not a skating problem. She looks like she sets herself up to fail. And she does every time.

rfisher
02-25-2011, 06:17 PM
Rosa Sheveleva just won the Russia Cup final today, beating Makarova & Leonova easily. She's got great jumps and her presentation has improved tremendously. Her 3Lz is a cracker.

She'll be senior eligible next season, and she will definitely be in contention for the Euros & Worlds spots.

Does this mean she might get a senior GP spot? I never watch the JGPs and can't wait to see some of the young Russians.