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alchemy void
01-09-2011, 07:25 PM
Yes, it's very difficult to judge 6.0 freeskates with COP because of the looser requirements with spins and footwork. Skaters are going to have different numbers of spin and footwork sequences. It will be difficult to make sure it's a level playing field (each skater has the same number of elements scored).

If we can determine a same number of elements for each skater, then obviously all spins/footwork should be called as level 1 and GOE should be applied to more difficult spins. It might be a lot of work to go through all those LPs and figure it out so we are judging an equal number of elements for each skater. It can be done but I'm definitely not willing to do all that extra work. ;) :cheer2:

SPs are so much easier because everyone has the same required 8 elements.

gkelly
01-09-2011, 07:26 PM
Well, step sequences weren't required in 1994 long programs. The "well-balanced program" rules didn't start getting introduced until a couple years later, and they were more guidelines than requirements at first.

So we could call a full step sequence as an element, or one that looks close enough to be intended as one and allow judges to give -GOE if it didn't look complete, and not call a step sequence if there wasn't a recognizable one.

There was no official penalty for not including one in 1994, and no official penalty in 2011 other than losing an opportunity to gain points.

Allen
01-09-2011, 07:43 PM
Wheee! I'm glad to see another judging game. I'd like to judge as in the past. What a great competition to work with. If we do further judging of long programs, there are a lot of videos on YouTube of the free skate at 94 worlds, with an interesting group of skaters.

I'd like to be the New Zealand judge.

CantALoop
01-09-2011, 09:10 PM
I agree that jumps should be unlimited, but will the current IJS software allow elements to be overridden and scored as normal so that any jumping passes past the 7th won't be asterisked and voided?

Fallcolor
01-09-2011, 09:14 PM
I'd like to play! :D

Aussie Willy
01-09-2011, 09:36 PM
The whole point of doing these games is to see what result is under IJS. You can still judge the quality of elements and PCS and apply the IJS principles. We don't have to call levels on elements unless they miss the element and it becomes invalid. We have had to run competitions at my rink like that when we don't have a TS.

Having just Choreographic Spirals will actually make the calling of spirals easier. I think go for quality in terms of how well it is performed rather than worrying about if they are held for however many seconds. Just recognise they have done a spiral sequence.

I am with gkelly. I am now so far removed from judging 6.0 for these kinds of programs I don't want to go back. But also people have found these exercises really interesting and given them a great understanding of the judging system. And they learn how hard it is to be a judge.

In answer to marking elements invalid, you can do it manually in the system as you do the datat entry. No problem there.

If someone wants to organise a judging game under 6.0 be my guest. Just remember though if you want to get a result, you need to be able to do the calculations to get the result and that is easier said than done. I have no clue how you do it unless you have the relevant software.

gkelly
01-09-2011, 09:49 PM
Actually the 6.0 calculations by the majority system are quite simple and I often used to do them by hand. I never got the hang of OBO.

bartek
01-09-2011, 09:59 PM
I love judging old competitions using IJS and those games are great opportunity to do it. I would like to be a judge from Poland.

I think that we should give normal levels to spins rather than reward higher difficulty with GOE. Grade of execution is to reward quality or punish lack of it, not to reward difficulty. We should reward skaters who did more difficult spins just giving them correct higher level and then give GOE for its quality. After all quality is something completely different than difficulty.

Allen
01-09-2011, 10:43 PM
I think that we should give normal levels to spins rather than reward higher difficulty with GOE. Grade of execution is to reward quality or punish lack of it, not to reward difficulty. We should reward skaters who did more difficult spins just giving them correct higher level and then give GOE for its quality. After all quality is something completely different than difficulty.

I agree here. I've seen judging games where spins were given no level and really, I don't think that's fair considering the rules were so different. If all spins got level one, that might work the best.

akkto
01-09-2011, 11:14 PM
Here you got a judge for Spain!;)

Jenna
01-10-2011, 04:16 AM
I would be interested in being on the technical panel! :D

Squibble
01-10-2011, 05:49 AM
This Baiul program has a lot of footwork, but COP would treat them as transitions because they are more near half pattern sequences.

I must say that I'm looking forward to seeing how a transition-filled program stacks up against one with a footwork sequence as an element (assuming the technical panel agrees with you). PCS vs. TES, anyone?

:watch: :COP:

Aussie Willy
01-10-2011, 06:21 AM
I would be interested in being on the technical panel! :D

That would be great. It is really to confirm the elements. If you like once you have watched the programs can you send them to me at my email address and I will get them entered in the program.

Thanks to Squibble for the video clips.

CantALoop
01-10-2011, 10:57 AM
Sent you my scores, although if some steps/spirals are called that I didn't grade I might need to revise them.

The spins were hard to call as well. Some spins were linked close together but didn't have an immediate change of foot (e.g. an arabian into a barely held 2-3 rotation spin, step out, and double turn into a scratch spin). I didn't know whether to judge those as a combination spin or two separate spins.

Put me as any country you wish :)

beepbeep
01-10-2011, 11:16 AM
Brazilian judge, reporting for duty :)