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C_T_T_
01-08-2011, 03:12 PM
This was all before my time...what where the olympic qualification rules back then and when did they change?

Completely off topic but I've also always wondered why there where only 2 men at 1998 Olympic for russia when Yagudin and Kulik finished 3rd and 5th at worlds the year before.

Sedge
01-08-2011, 03:26 PM
This was all before my time...what where the olympic qualification rules back then and when did they change?

Completely off topic but I've also always wondered why there where only 2 men at 1998 Olympic for Russia when Yagudin and Kulik finished 3rd and 5th at worlds the year before.

Butyrskaya and Russia 1994 spot was lost at 1993 Worlds where Maria finished 34th ..I don't believe she even skated the FP.
Olympic spots were drawn solely from 1993 Worlds top placements..no secondary Q

At 1997 Worlds Urmanov started the competition ( I believe he was 1st in the SP) and withdrew with a groin injury during the FP warmup, IIRC. That was the intro year for qualifying next year's team based on a formula for placements that is still in existence today. Trouble was they charged you points for the 3rd skater, once the competition had started and Urmanov's points must have taken them too low to Q 3 people.
Later..they dropped the points charged for the 3rd entry so you could send a developmental skater and not have it hurt you.
I believe that Dan Hollander's placement at 1997 Worlds also cost USA a 3rd spot in 1998

C_T_T_
01-08-2011, 03:34 PM
Ah I see, thank you!

Rock2
01-08-2011, 03:59 PM
I found this clip of her SP from 94 Euros and just had to post because I am sure others will like it as well. Loved the energy and attack. Plus the voidy version of Phantom with the bird calls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmjp4czOEp4&NR=1



This was almost the exact music that Czako used in her LP in 94 I believe it was. THAT program, while it had good jumps, was an artistic disaster. Nice to see what real choreo looked like to that music.

I liked the layback in this program. Better attempt at what was usually a bad element for her.

I found that yes there was a little more speed and attack in the program, helped by the demands on the music. But, in her upper body and face you can see the tension, so I wouldn't say there was much abandon here. My interpretation is that she tried to improve her skating maturity to get her second mark up as the years went on. This made her look stiffer as she tried to be more controlled and mature vs. what judges might have seen as a bit hokey in this program. So I'm not completely convinced that her skating went to much further south as the years went on. The hints of her discomfort were always there in my mind.

Rock2
01-08-2011, 04:24 PM
When it comes to Baiul I have to say her 94 programs in general left me furious. First, her short was an absolute classic and one of the best SPs I can remember from women (spins not super great and f/w could have used a little more variety but I'm overlooking for now). I'd have that program artistically at least 0.3 above any other program coming out of the gate. What irritates me was that she won the gold in Lillehammer so we never got to see more of this. Further, this ultra-sophisticated short made her LP look dated and immature. I consequently would have marked this one way down.

And, yes, the USFSA used her LP in judging seminars after 1994 to explain why you should mark programs down. There was a calculation of about 90 seconds of the program (I forget exactly how much) where she stood or danced in place. On a related note they used Petrenko's 92 LP similarly to show why a record number of crosscuts does not a great program make.

Now for Markova and Butyrskaya. I think judges favored much more classical styles and music back then and particularly techno for women wasn't as readily embraced. I don't think it helped that in my mind Maria and Olga were virtually clones of each other based on how they skated, the music they chose, even how they did their hair. Maria's costume looked way out of place in relation to the music. Olga lined up her look, music and choreo much better....so she was the better clone. I think their styles put them in the second tier right out of the gate and no doubt their marks were also affected by a downgrading in the overall Brand of Russian women who were not worthy (based on the rules) of competing at the Olympics.

I think Maria moved up over the years because of her consistently decent skates, addition of a full complement of triples and programs/packaging that were a little less left-of-center

taf2002
01-08-2011, 06:25 PM
I agree that Maria was voidy here but her spiral sequence...:scream: And her layback travelled quite a bit. I also feel that the performance level went down as the program progressed. But her jumps were very nice.

gkelly
01-08-2011, 06:36 PM
So, anyone want to do an FSU judging game with these freeskates? Add in the German ladies too?

Aussie Willy
01-08-2011, 11:39 PM
I think it would make a great judging game. I could put the results into the system. Just got to get the ISUCalc program working on my laptop.

If someone wanted to post the link to the clips then that would be appreciated.

alchemy void
01-09-2011, 01:38 AM
Sure, I'll judge...I love stuff like this. I'll link to all the available freeskates, does anyone want to start a new thread maybe?

Czako (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXClHIEjDnw)
Witt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ainbHjq_ks)
Butyrskaya (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POcVjSr9W9U)
Bonaly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnw1RsxVxeQ)
Markova (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT57QERvqa0)
Szewczenko (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEx0PSawudQ)
Baiul (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJmcMo5uImA)

all_empty
01-09-2011, 02:43 AM
I agree that Maria was voidy here but her spiral sequence... And her layback travelled quite a bit. I also feel that the performance level went down as the program progressed. But her jumps were very nice.

Oksana wasn't without mistakes either.

I'm not positive what the spin requirements were back then, but her layback looked short and there was no sit position in her combination spin.

Still the program is one of the finest works of choreography ever.

Squibble
01-09-2011, 02:46 AM
Ludmila Ivanova SP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYPdFAIOhe8)
Tanja Szewczenko SP & Katarina Witt SP, with additional bitchiness from Marina Kielmann (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBTRhisYjHU)

ETA:

Olga Markova SP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzjj18Cmwe4)
Surya Bonaly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja2r4B1nUcc)
Krisztina Czakó (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc_4jtSLcBQ)

Seerek
01-09-2011, 02:52 AM
Ludmilla ivanova was 2nd in the qualifying? Wow... what happened to her?

seaner00
01-09-2011, 03:01 AM
So, anyone want to do an FSU judging game with these freeskates? Add in the German ladies too?

I've always wanted to do a judging game based on 3axel1996's vast amount of videos. I wish someone would get 8 other people so we could do our own competitions.

I've already judged some Olympics myself from youtube videos so I already have a head start!

Anyone interested??

Squibble
01-09-2011, 04:22 AM
Ludmilla ivanova was 2nd in the qualifying? Wow... what happened to her?

http://web.archive.org/web/20071216070943/http://ostrov.zp.ua/nomer79-lichnost-skolzkaya-zhizn.html

As of three years ago, she was married and living in a one-room unit in Zaporozhye, where she was coaching young skaters and trying to build up skating from scratch.

ETA: According to the article, she had twice been confined to a wheelchair but was fine at the time of the interview. It isn't clear from the article if her mobility problem was skating-related.

poths
01-09-2011, 02:58 PM
http://web.archive.org/web/20071216070943/http://ostrov.zp.ua/nomer79-lichnost-skolzkaya-zhizn.html

As of three years ago, she was married and living in a one-room unit in Zaporozhye, where she was coaching young skaters and trying to build up skating from scratch.

ETA: According to the article, she had twice been confined to a wheelchair but was fine at the time of the interview. It isn't clear from the article if her mobility problem was skating-related.

Wow! :eek:

That's pretty interesting.