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Doubletoe
02-08-2011, 12:22 AM
I first recall hearing that Zhang hiring Shep Goldberg at Skate America 2007. In fact, I saw him there.

And I wouldn't "blame" her parents for that. I'm sure it was arranged by the Kwans (and by that, I mean Danny).

SkateSkates
02-08-2011, 12:31 AM
Siraj's technique isn't that bad, she at least gets more height on her jumps than Vanessa, so she still might have a shot at holding on to her jumps in the long run. Have to agree about Lam though, although didn't Tara Lipinski have very similar jumping technique? Didn't hurt her. Also there's a chance Vanessa stays really tiny, not everyone goes through a big growthspurt and drastic body changes like Caroline did.

It hurt Tara's hip!

Ziggy
02-08-2011, 01:59 AM
Have to agree about Lam though, although didn't Tara Lipinski have very similar jumping technique? Didn't hurt her.

:huh:

She retired when she was what like 15, before her growth spurt anyhow.

Yazmeen
02-08-2011, 02:26 AM
And I wouldn't "blame" her parents for that. I'm sure it was arranged by the Kwans (and by that, I mean Danny).

Why so sure, and where is the evidence for this?

pinky166
02-08-2011, 03:40 AM
:huh:

She retired when she was what like 15, before her growth spurt anyhow.

She's still really little now though. If Vanessa stays small, she might be ok. Although all those loops are bound to bother her hips eventually.

shine
02-08-2011, 06:32 AM
Actually, what is so wrong with Siraj's jump technique? I thought they are pretty solid. The lutz seems to give her troubles quite a bit, but all her other triples are of pretty good quality. And her double axel is huge. I certainly don't see the barely-get-off-the-ice look in her jumps like I do Zhang and Lam.

BigB08822
02-08-2011, 06:46 AM
Tara is a very bad example because there was no such thing as GOE as there was no COP in place at the time. She would have done really well to get +GOE on her jumps because of lack of height, edge issues with her lutz and other minor things. Tara did very well with what she had but the most important thing is that she won her World and Olympic title and then retired. She never had to skate with a new body. Of course she grew some but she NEVER skated at a major competition with an adult body. It is impossible to say how she would have done. I'm not trying to turn this into another Tara/Michelle thread but I'm just pointing out that Lam shouldn't be looking to Tara's success and thinking she can achieve the same results in this day and age and after growing.

Dragonlady
02-08-2011, 08:20 AM
ETA: On another note, 2011-12 will be the first season since Caroline burst onto the scene with her successful junior international debut (fall 2006) in which she does not qualify for a funded U.S. team envelope up front.

There was a flurry of posts on the skating message boards before her first Jr. GP season hyping Zhang to the skies. At that point, it was said that this had been the work of someone in her PR firm, and that she'd had a PR firm for a while, but I can remember where I read it.

Polymer Bob
02-08-2011, 01:58 PM
There was a flurry of posts on the skating message boards before her first Jr. GP season hyping Zhang to the skies. At that point, it was said that this had been the work of someone in her PR firm, and that she'd had a PR firm for a while, but I can remember where I read it.

Here is why I do not believe this is correct. Caroline's Wikipedia entry goes back 2 seasons before her breakthrough. Here were her results.....

2004 - 2005
Novice Regional - 2nd
Novice Sectional - 4th
Novice U.S. Championship - 4th

2005 - 2006
Junior Regional - 2nd
Junior Sectional - 3rd
Junior U.S. Championship - 8th

At this point, every agent in town wanted a piece of Caroline???? :confused:

Then her breakthrough season

2006 - 2007
3 Junior Grand Prix events - 1st ( ISU record for margin of victory )
Junior U.S. Championship - 2nd
Junior Worlds - 1st

So you see, what makes Caroline different from any other skater is that she burst onto the scene in international competition, not national competition. There would have been no reason to hire an agent before the fall of 2006, and I don't think any agent would have bothered with her.

EDIT : Of course, feel free to post a link that proves me wrong.

Sylvia
02-08-2011, 02:22 PM
There was a flurry of posts on the skating message boards before her first Jr. GP season hyping Zhang to the skies.
I was around back then and am pretty sure this is the first known amateur video of Caroline's skating that was posted on youtube -- her Junior SP from the All Year FSC's club competition in June 2006 (the upload date is a year later because it's not the original uploader's video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5j1zAIn1Wc

I recall this link first being posted on Golden Skate (I don't believe they have archives like FSU does) and there was some online discussion about her before she officially was assigned to the JGP in Mexico City on 7/18/06. But I don't remember this part:

At that point, it was said that this had been the work of someone in her PR firm, and that she'd had a PR firm for a while, but I can remember where I read it.
Not saying you are misremembering, just that *I* don't remember it, and I keep close tabs on discussions of up-and-coming young skaters, as some may know. ;)

ETA: In any case, it sounds like hearsay info and so unlikely to be "proven" true or false almost 5 years later.

Sylvia
02-08-2011, 03:17 PM
Actually, what is so wrong with Siraj's jump technique? I thought they are pretty solid. The lutz seems to give her troubles quite a bit, but all her other triples are of pretty good quality. And her double axel is huge. I certainly don't see the barely-get-off-the-ice look in her jumps like I do Zhang and Lam.
FYI, this specific topic (jump technique of Siraj and others) was being discussed/continued yesterday in a separate thread at: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=77496

Sasha'sSpins
02-08-2011, 03:25 PM
Dance - where speed, flow and blade control are EVERYTHING? Ice dancers have the best stroking and edges of any of the disciplines. No, Caroline Zhang should not consider dance.

Maybe Pairs then? :D

Sasha'sSpins
02-08-2011, 04:01 PM
Zhang's family hired a PR firmand a management company before she set foot on international ice as a junior, so yes, she did ask for the hype and the attention before she won anything. IMO the money should have been spent on fixing her basic skating and her jumps prior to her moving to the senior ranks.


Um, I would say her parents asked for this, not her, it's not fair to pin this on Caroline. She was a little young then - she just likely went along with what Mommy decided to do. This was a precedent that started with Tara Lipinski who had an agent well before she was winning major competitions. Of course, she more than lived up to the hype.

And this is a continuing problem with skater families. Per friends who know an agent who has commented that it can be a thankless job - the parents are all "I want this, and I want that" for the skater, and then the skater doesn't live up to the what the endorsers expect.

Thank you Yazmeen-I was about to respond to Dragonlady's post but you beat me to it. It was not Caroline that hired a PR firm, etc. but her parents. Even now Caroline is just a kid. It's the adults in her life who made such decisions early on in her career.

pinky166
02-08-2011, 05:50 PM
Maybe Pairs then? :D

I thought she'd be better off doing pairs since day 1 but now that she's a bit taller and heavier than the average pair girl skater it might be hard to find a partner who's big enough for her but still skates slow :P

Sparks
02-08-2011, 05:57 PM
I was around back then and am pretty sure this is the first known amateur video of Caroline's skating that was posted on youtube -- her Junior SP from the All Year FSC's club competition in June 2006 (the upload date is a year later because it's not the original uploader's video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5j1zAIn1Wc

I recall this link first being posted on Golden Skate (I don't believe they have archives like FSU does) and there was some online discussion about her before she officially was assigned to the JGP in Mexico City on 7/18/06. But I don't remember this part:

Not saying you are misremembering, just that *I* don't remember it, and I keep close tabs on discussions of up-and-coming young skaters, as some may know. ;)

ETA: In any case, it sounds like hearsay info and so unlikely to be "proven" true or false almost 5 years later.

I remember seeing Caroline Zhang at 2006 Nationals. We were sitting with some "Ice Follies" ladies who had been in the business a very long time. They were friends with Frank and others. They were so wonderful. Anyway, they said that Caroline was going to be the next Michelle Kwan and everyone was talking about her.
Why place blame on anyone for Caroline getting management in 2007? Why was that so bad? :confused: