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Ziggy
02-02-2011, 06:29 PM
But are scores as high this year as in past years with the changes made at the last Congress?

Past years don't have anything to do with it. It's the 2010/2011 season's best scores list that counts.

She is currently 69th on the season's best score list.

There is 4CC and Junior Worlds still to come.

It is very likely that at those events, there will be some Ladies who will gain a higher score than Zhang, pushing her out of top 75.

And if she's out of top 75, there will be no GP guaranteed for her, unless USFS picks her for SA which is extremely unlikely for the obvious reasons.

I do hope that ISU changes the rules and allows skaters from outside top 75 to be picked as replacements if there isn't anybody else available (injuries, split teams, etc.).

The other thing is that list discriminates against skaters who weren't able to take part in GP & ISU Champs. :(

Sylvia
02-02-2011, 06:41 PM
69th is Zhang's current ISU Season's World ranking (http://www.isuresults.com/ws/wr/wrladies.htm).

Zhang's highest ISU total score this season is 133.86 (NHK Trophy) which currently ranks her 46th on the ISU Season Bests Total Scores list for 2010-11 (http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2010-11/sbtslto.htm).

Her current ISU World ranking (http://www.isuresults.com/ws/ws/wsladies.htm) (3 seasons of results) stands at #20 (2031 points), but her 838 points from the 2008-09 season will disappear after this season, and her 1,163 points from last season (680 for her bronze at 4 Continents) will be reduced to 70% value (= 814 points if I calculated correctly) and added to the 213 points she earned for her 7th place finish at NHK Trophy. That will give her 1027 points going into next season, which will likely drop her World ranking into the 30s.

Ziggy
02-02-2011, 06:58 PM
Ahhhh of course, sorry for the confusion. :o :slinkaway

Thanks for the clarifications, Sylvia. :)

Coco
02-02-2011, 10:40 PM
Well, if she continues to work hard over the summer and shows some improvement, I hope that USFSA can find space for her at either Finlandia or Nebelhorn.

barbk
02-02-2011, 11:30 PM
Thanks for the clarifications Sylvia & Ziggy.

Am I right in thinking that federations can invite Caroline to GP events even so? (That is, she isn't entitled to an event, but could be invited?)

oleada
02-02-2011, 11:36 PM
If she has a top 75 SB score, she is eligible to be invited, though not guaranteed.

Jammers
02-02-2011, 11:48 PM
From what I saw last season, Alissa and Ryan were done then.

But at least Alissa was a former US champion. Something that Zhang has never done. Plus everyone knew that Alissa always had the skills to win but needed help in the mental part of her skating more then anything else. Caroline has a lot of problems with her skating that goes way beyond just her jumps. Even skating her best Caroline isn't going to beat the top ladies.

HisWeirness
02-03-2011, 12:28 AM
The rule definitely exists. It has been introduced recently.

Thinking about it now, I am not sure if it guarantees two spots, but definitely one. HW will surely be able to correct me on that. ;)

Plushenko benefited from that too. I think he actually was able to get 2 spots but chose to only do one because he didn't feel fully ready?

Answering the call to duty... :P

Under 2010-11 GP rules, there is a "come-back" skaters/couples provision that says:

Skaters/Couples who were previously seeded (placed 1 to 6 at any previous ISU World Figure Skating Championships) and subsequently do not participate in one or more competitive seasons are allowed to re-enter the Grand Prix if they commit to participating in 2 Grand Prix events. A come-back under this clause is allowed only once for any skater. Subsequent to the come-back season, the skater will be considered only by his /her placement on the official lists (seeded or World Standing points, etc.). If the skater is no longer on the list, he/she will not be considered for a Grand Prix event.
So, this rule is not about reigning World and Olympic medalists but about those who have ever finished 1-6 at Worlds being able to come back once under the come-back provision.

The USFSA has a rule about giving Olympic medalists an automatic bye to Nationals for the quad after their Olympic medal, but this has nothing to do with GP assignments.

Here are the 2009-10 GP rules relevant to come-backs by former high-level skaters (the famous "no fault of their own" rule):

Skaters/couples, seeded in any previous year (place 1 to 6 in the respective World Championships), and who due to injury or no fault of their own, were forced to sit out competitive season(s) could be considered for selection for up to 2 assignments, if they return to competitive skating.

A come-back provision was not included in the 2008-09 and 2007-08 GP Rules. Based on what I have heard, the come-back provision used to only appear in an Olympics season, but with the 2010-11 rules, it is now in the GP rules during a non-Olympic season.

Ziggy
02-03-2011, 12:40 AM
HisWeirness :encore:

What would we do without you! :respec:

I like that rule. Means that if you get 2 GPs but then get "injured" (ie. change your mind), your opportunity is gone.

Iceman
02-03-2011, 01:53 AM
The first combo she did was so encouraging----and then everything started coming apart at the seams. I wonder if she has even really worked through the terrible fall from her junior status till the last few years. It must be quite traumatic. Sorry, but she really looked like
one of those very low level skaters that appear at 4CC each year, but they have the legit excuse of not having been around long, still learning and little experience on the world stage.

mag
02-03-2011, 01:55 AM
HisWeirness :encore:

What would we do without you! :respec:

I like that rule. Means that if you get 2 GPs but then get "injured" (ie. change your mind), your opportunity is gone.

But if you got your 2 GP's under the comeback rule and then were injured and had to sit out the season could you get 2 GP's the next season through the "no fault" rule?

HisWeirness
02-03-2011, 01:59 AM
Based on this:

If a seeded or “come-back” skater/couple withdraws from an assigned event, even for medical reasons, that skater/couple will not be assigned to another event.
I am going to say that once the skater/couple uses the "come-back" to get an assignment they can't use it again, even if they never competed at their 2 GP assignments because of injury. Of course, it is ultimately up to the ISU to decide how strict they want to be, and it would not hurt if they clarified what they would decide if a freak injury (such as the Samuelson/Bates injury) disrupted an honest come-back attempt.

The "no fault" rule is no longer a rule as of 2010-11.

Each season the GP rules can change. Whatever is in the official GP announcement is what decides the assignment rules.

UGG
02-03-2011, 02:46 AM
The first combo she did was so encouraging----and then everything started coming apart at the seams. I wonder if she has even really worked through the terrible fall from her junior status till the last few years. It must be quite traumatic. Sorry, but she really looked like
one of those very low level skaters that appear at 4CC each year, but they have the legit excuse of not having been around long, still learning and little experience on the world stage.

It must be very tough. I mean she basically went from "The next Michelle Kwan" to almost "has been child star" status in 4 years. That cannot be an easy pill to swallow for anyone-let alone a 17 year old. This is why I HATE when skaters who are 4'6 and weigh 75 pounds are hyped to no end.

stjeaskategym
02-03-2011, 07:12 AM
This is why I HATE when skaters who are 4'6 and weigh 75 pounds are hyped to no end.

..especially when they have such glaring technical problems... When Caroline was only 4th in her first Sr Nationals with clean programs, it was already very obvious that technical changes needed to be made. It's taken several years for her to address some of these things, but better late than never... This is a great challenge for her, and while it will naturally get very frustrating at times, hopefully she finds the process of trying to improve her skating satisfying. Were people really calling her the next Kwan? :rolleyes: At least now people seem to be more accepting that there isn't going to be another Kwan.

Ziggy
02-03-2011, 10:50 AM
At least now people seem to be more accepting that there isn't going to be another Kwan.

But there is another Kwan! Rachael Flatt. She's as elegant as Michelle was and even skating to the same music. :D