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Mafke
12-21-2010, 05:58 AM
What was flukish wasn't Meissner's win, it was her rapid decline. Not so much in 2007 fourth was a credible placement that year (what with Asada and Kim two long time judges' darlings entering the seniors).

But by the next season (or shortly thereafter) even a clean Meissner couldn't get the time of day from the judges as the ISU's jihad against underrotation reached bizarre levels.

skateboy
12-21-2010, 08:00 AM
What was flukish wasn't Meissner's win, it was her rapid decline. Not so much in 2007 fourth was a credible placement that year (what with Asada and Kim two long time judges' darlings entering the seniors).

But by the next season (or shortly thereafter) even a clean Meissner couldn't get the time of day from the judges as the ISU's jihad against underrotation reached bizarre levels.


This. After Kimmie's climb up the ladder, lots of people (many on this forum) thought she would certainly challenge for Olympic gold in 2010.

olympic
12-21-2010, 02:56 PM
1981-1984 was the craziest quadrennial for womens skating ever. Even going into Sarajevo I dont think people knew what to expect. Sumners was probably favorite but was clearly vurnerable. Witt was doing well that season but hadnt won a major title yet. Zayak seemed to be on the way down but shocked most people with some of her best performances ever in Sarajevo, but unfortunately clearly was out of favor by that point it turned out. Leistner, Voderezova, Ivanova returning to competition but not really being proven yet even in her first go around, Chin, Kondrashova, Rueben.

Many of the top skaters in the middle of the quad just retiring or dissapearing altogether- Biellmann, Binder, Cottrill, DeVries, Vegelius, and others making returns from long absences like Voderezova and Ivanova.

I have to agree with this assessment of Roz being the shaky favorite. I disagree that Witt going into 1984 was the favorite. Her skating, especially in the '81 - '84 quadrennial, had its weaknesses which I think Mafke alluded to. She had 2 Euro titles but the US ladies were extremely strong. Roz was current world champ with a powerful fed. behind her, and she had much stronger basics than '84 Witt. Witt probably had an edge jump-wise because she was going for a 3flip, but even that was tenuous at best and she ultimately left that out by Sarajevo and '84 Worlds. Otherwise she was only doing 3toes and 3sals, too.

Yes. This quadrennial was crazy - of the top finishers in '81 - 1. Biellmann, 2. Zayak, 3. Kristofics-Binder, 4. Cottrell, 3 were completely gone from competition and the 4th [Zayak] ended up down in 6th place by Sarajevo. There were 7 different medalists on 3 world podiums from 1981 - 1983. The only double medalists from '81 - '83 were Zayak [silver '81; gold '82] and Kristofics-Binder [bronze '81 and '82] WOW

VIETgrlTerifa
12-21-2010, 04:32 PM
I just found Katarina Witt's skating in the 1980s to be so outdated and wooden and unfinished. I have to say that as much as I hate to admit it, Roz Sumners really knew how to move on the ice...pretty princess or not. It's not easy finishing off moves otherwise more skaters would do it.

smarts1
12-22-2010, 02:09 AM
What was flukish wasn't Meissner's win, it was her rapid decline. Not so much in 2007 fourth was a credible placement that year (what with Asada and Kim two long time judges' darlings entering the seniors).

But by the next season (or shortly thereafter) even a clean Meissner couldn't get the time of day from the judges as the ISU's jihad against underrotation reached bizarre levels.

Well, what did you expect? Kimmie's technique on her jumps were very odd and borderline terrible, and with her body changes, it was no wonder she lost them.

judgejudy27
12-22-2010, 02:30 AM
What was flukish wasn't Meissner's win, it was her rapid decline. Not so much in 2007 fourth was a credible placement that year (what with Asada and Kim two long time judges' darlings entering the seniors).

But by the next season (or shortly thereafter) even a clean Meissner couldn't get the time of day from the judges as the ISU's jihad against underrotation reached bizarre levels.

Up until fall 2007 Meissner was actually still very well respected by the judges. She in fact was getting "held up" in a big way in PCS for the first half of the 07-08 season. Jumpwise she was barely landing anything yet still made the GP final with a 1st and 2nd place finish, and won Skate America. Someone who broke down the scores showed she was about 12th in TES on the grand prix but still 3rd in PCS. :shuffle: It in fact was to the point of being unfair, someone like Rochette was landing many more jumps than Meissner during the grand prix series yet wasnt getting anywhere near the PCS and missed the final (they didnt compete H2H mind you). It wasnt until after bombing both the GP final and Nationals too the judges finally dropped Meissner's PCS down quite a bit.

I dont know what most expected from Meissner. I thought she would have alot better career then she has. However I would have predicted her to never win another World title even back in 2006, probably another couple medals and maybe an Olympic medal in 2010, but I didnt see her as even close to the next dominant skater.

Coco
12-22-2010, 04:40 AM
She was such a 6.0 skater, not brilliant anywhere except consistency from '04-'07, but no glaring weaknesses...at least by 6.0 standards.

Back to Witt, I loved her 2z3toe combo, and I wish more skaters would try this.

Seerek
12-22-2010, 05:25 PM
She was such a 6.0 skater, not brilliant anywhere except consistency from '04-'07, but no glaring weaknesses...at least by 6.0 standards.

Back to Witt, I loved her 2z3toe combo, and I wish more skaters would try this.

(sadly), You won't be seeing many of those combinations these days, because in the CoP era, there really isn't any incentive to do double-triple combinations because the base value isn't increased vs. a triple-double combination.

Mafke
12-22-2010, 05:50 PM
(sadly), You won't be seeing many of those combinations these days, because in the CoP era, there really isn't any incentive to do double-triple combinations because the base value isn't increased vs. a triple-double combination.

That is so stupid. And I love the double-triple combos, they have such a distinct rhythm and they add variety to the jump layout.

Extranjera
12-22-2010, 06:09 PM
16. Kimmie Meissner- I hate to say it especialy as I like Kimmie but isnt it obvious by now it was one of the flukes in history probably.




I think the gold of Sarah was the biggest fluke. Kimmie wasn't compete with Kwan and Slutskaya in their life form atleast.

Vash01
12-22-2010, 08:50 PM
Ilia Kulik never won the world championship. His best finish was a silver in 1996. I know you are talking about World or Olympic champions. Urmanov is in the same boat as Kulik's except that his LP performance was not a slam dunk like Kulik's. It could have gone either way.

aliceanne
12-22-2010, 09:30 PM
Petra Burka -

First woman to do a triple. She was '65 World Champ and bronze-medalist at '66 Worlds, right? She had a lot going for her. Any one know why she didn't just stick with it thru '68 and the Grenoble Olympics?


According to her mother/coach she could also do all of her jumps in both directions.

I read somewhere (either Cranston memoirs or Ellen Burka interview in IFS) that when Petra got the bronze in at Worlds in '66 the feeling was that the figure skating establishment had annointed Peggy Fleming as the chosen one and there was no point for Petra to continue.

olympic
12-22-2010, 10:40 PM
According to her mother/coach she could also do all of her jumps in both directions.

I read somewhere (either Cranston memoirs or Ellen Burka interview in IFS) that when Petra got the bronze in at Worlds in '66 the feeling was that the figure skating establishment had annointed Peggy Fleming as the chosen one and there was no point for Petra to continue.

Thanks. Sounds like she just gave up? :confused: If everyone did that, there'd be no competition

judgejudy27
12-22-2010, 11:34 PM
Peggy in her book said Petra went on a crash diet and looked smaller and alot less powerful going into the 66 Worlds. And she said that is when she knew she could win.

Coco
12-23-2010, 12:41 AM
(sadly), You won't be seeing many of those combinations these days, because in the CoP era, there really isn't any incentive to do double-triple combinations because the base value isn't increased vs. a triple-double combination.

You make a good point, but I think 2-3 combinations would be rewarded with GOE. While GOE has been reduced, it's still significant. Also, it's great training for 3-3 combos, imo.

Back to your regularly scheduled thread. :)

For those who are saying Hughes was a fluke, I'd say she was more lucky than anything. Not quite a fluke. She was 7th in '99, 5th in '00, 3rd in 01 and 1st in 02, at least at the Games. Her 3rd place in 01 was by a very narrow margin over Maria B. Can't recall the details of 99 and 00, but we all know how close '02 was as well. Sarah repeatedly put herself in the right place at the right time and eventually triumphed. Not really a fluke. Kimmie won her first worlds, but barely caught a whiff of any international podium before or after that. That's more of a fluke that Sarah's gold, as much as I feel mean for saying so. Both Kimmie and Sarah benefitted GREATLY from the lax judging standards of their day.