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View Full Version : Jean Senft's Book "Triumph on Ice: The New World of Figure skating"



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Dragonlady
01-04-2011, 04:14 PM
Which is kind of odd, as at the dosages you generally have to take for immunosuppression, it's certainly NOT a performance enhancer. (If anything, you often wish you were dead because it would probably feel better. It's really, really, NOT a fun drug to be on if you absolutely don't have to be.)

As someone who has had to take prednisone for long periods, I'm absolutely gobsmacked that she could have won a World Championship while taking that drug.

caseyedwards
01-04-2011, 05:53 PM
ITA! Evan's technique pushed him over the top. Plushy already has a gold (and 2 silvers!) - why is he so bitter?



What is the point of doing a whole program if all you need is a quad? Just do a jumping pass and then decide the Olympic winner.

I really thought that based on where skating was going a man who put a quad into his progam and then did all the other jumps and spins and steps and tried choreo and had speed was far superior than someone who did not do any quads. Not just me was thinking this! Obviously the huge controversy over Plushenko's loss and then all the rule changes which made it more likely Plushenko would have won confirmed this! Like why did Stojko and Chengjiang Li just totally collapse in standing after Yagudin and Plushenko started to win everything? It was "oh you can do quads and everything else!!" I mean three winners in a row did quads and then a non-quad winner? Going backwards alert! Quad triple and two triple axels and level 3 and 4 in both spins and steps. Plushenko was far superior to Lysacek in everything.

olympic
01-04-2011, 06:01 PM
Senorita,

How much further ahead would you say Dai should've been in the SP to give him the Gold in Vancouver? I don't recall point totals in the LP. But he'd have to have set a WR quadless in the SP to win. I don't think that could've happened.

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, but I think that Lysacek is disliked by some and not deemed worthy of olympic champ status regardless of deserving it that night. Plushenko is even more despised, so I think these 2 in Gold-Silver status really bothers some and they look to Dai as the deserved champ. But, it could've never happened. He had his own skating flaws in Vancouver.

Andora
01-04-2011, 06:01 PM
IMO this is why V&M won over D&W.

:rofl:

professordeb
01-04-2011, 06:11 PM
I'm with Andora on the floor. Not sure if I'm rolling, but definitely having a laugh.

mag
01-04-2011, 06:22 PM
I'm with Andora on the floor. Not sure if I'm rolling, but definitely having a laugh.

Me too! I was there for both the OD and FD live. The right team won.

leafygreens
01-04-2011, 09:04 PM
I agree (about the can't give one country two golds). However, in this case it was a toss up, for me. Giving either V&M or D&W the gold was fair. Unlike other times where it clearly is :confused:. Where I think they were way off was 3rd place. I think B&A should have been 3rd. D&S, aside from the offensiveness of their OD, did not skate as well. But, we couldn't have 3 NA teams on the podium for the O's - :eek:.

Agree with all of this. Especially a tragedy for B&A. I really think they had to squeeze in one last Russian podium finish before the rest of the world catches on and is outraged.

professordeb
01-04-2011, 11:20 PM
I'm also LMAO at the comments about not giving one country multiple gold medals in the Olympics. With that in mind, I decided to to a bit of research and skating in three disciplines begins back in 1908 - men, women and pairs. Dance wasn't added until the 1976 games. After being as careful as I could be, and getting data from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_medalists_in_figure_skating
here's how it went for multiple gold medal winners from the same country before dance:
1920 - SWE -- men and ladies
1924 - AUT -- ladies & pairs
1956 - USA -- men & ladies
1960 - USA -- men & ladies

After dance was added:
1976 - URS -- pairs & dance
1980 - URS -- pairs & dance
1988 - URS -- pairs & dance
1992 - EUN -- men, pairs & dance
1994 - RUS -- men, paris & dance, ladies won by UKR
1998 - RUS -- men, pairs & dance
2002 - RUS -- men & pairs (shared)
2006 - RUS -- men, pairs & dance

So if I go by what a couple of posters are suggesting, then there was a lot of successful politicking on behalf of teams from current day Russia and back when it was the USSR. Hmmmmm ....

overedge
01-04-2011, 11:25 PM
I'm also LMAO at the comments about not giving one country multiple gold medals in the Olympics. .

Ooh, but it's not just gold medals. Remember that Johnny Weir claimed that he didn't have a chance at an 2010 Olympic medal because there was already a North American guaranteed a podium spot by the time he skated <<insert konspiracy theory icon here>>

cruisin
01-04-2011, 11:36 PM
After dance was added:
1976 - URS -- pairs & dance
1980 - URS -- pairs & dance
1988 - URS -- pairs & dance
1992 - EUN -- men, pairs & dance
1994 - RUS -- men, paris & dance, ladies won by UKR
1998 - RUS -- men, pairs & dance
2002 - RUS -- men & pairs (shared)
2006 - RUS -- men, pairs & dance

So if I go by what a couple of posters are suggesting, then there was a lot of successful politicking on behalf of teams from current day Russia and back when it was the USSR. Hmmmmm ....

Don't laugh, I think you made the point others were only implying.

senorita
01-05-2011, 12:30 AM
Senorita,

How much further ahead would you say Dai should've been in the SP to give him the Gold in Vancouver? I don't recall point totals in the LP. But he'd have to have set a WR quadless in the SP to win. I don't think that could've happened.



His marks were fine, I think i would put the other two 3-4 marks below. I m a Plush uber but having watched months later the Olys again without all the heat of the moment, his sp was uninspired and he didnt skate it like even Euros and I dont hate Lysacek, it was fine when he was receiving 10 points less - before he became world champion-for the same kind of sp he has skated the last few years. Dont forget also Dai was digged with edge calls and lost many points. Except for the fall on the quad his programs were gorgeous. On any case I m not a judge, I m a fan.

gwagner
01-05-2011, 01:15 AM
I think I am going to check it out, mostly out of curiosity. I have always found Senft and interesting figure, so I'm curious to see what she has to say about the new system.

I know a lot of people hate the new system, but I love where skating has gone technically. I guess my questions is, would we have every known that 6.0 skating was less superior techinically without the new system? I probably would have just kept on enjoying skating as it was.

Good question.

In the old system, I found that 95% of the programs were pretty empty in terms of transitions and choreography-- and that made the few exceptional skaters really stand out.

In this new system, I am enjoying more like 70-80% of the programs.

So while I might not have known any better if the new system hadnt come around, I certainly do enjoy watching skating a lot more now.

walei
01-05-2011, 01:40 AM
Don't laugh, I think you made the point others were only implying.

Now the question is, which countries should have won multiple gold but didn't.

AragornElessar
01-05-2011, 05:21 AM
Good Lord on High!!

I've only gotten through Page Two and already I think this thread's set a new record for "As many Kicking a Dead Horse topics" when it comes to various posters mentioning previous events over the years. Unreal!!

Gerard
01-05-2011, 02:50 PM
Good Lord on High!!

I've only gotten through Page Two and already I think this thread's set a new record for "As many Kicking a Dead Horse topics" when it comes to various posters mentioning previous events over the years. Unreal!!

I was a bit surprised by some of the posts...

Aragorn, why don't you start kicking <<live>> horses and see where this will take you???