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Gerard
12-31-2010, 02:02 AM
More by me, and I'm Canadian. And I loved B&K as well.

Now, about the book - I just got it out of library and all I can say is I'm glad I didn't buy it. It's a coffee table book with pretty pictures and some detailed descriptions of the NJS. But totally lacking in depth and insight. . .and :skandal.

I've only just started the book and maybe it will get more interesting - but I kind of doubt it.


I thought Jean did a good job of presenting simply something that most consider <<complicated>> - it is an easy, interesting and informative read - the explanation of the score card and results (Plushenko vs Lysacek) is, I think, quite effective.

Japanfan
12-31-2010, 02:28 AM
I thought Jean did a good job of presenting simply something that most consider <<complicated>> - it is an easy, interesting and informative read - the explanation of the score card and results (Plushenko vs Lysacek) is, I think, quite effective.

I agree. But I had hoped for a more interesting and in-depth read like The Second Mark, which I did buy and have hung on to.

essence_of_soy
12-31-2010, 05:21 AM
I agree. But I had hoped for a more interesting and in-depth read like The Second Mark, which I did buy and have hung on to.

The Second Mark is my favourite skating book; it reads like a Ken Burns documentary series.

cruisin
12-31-2010, 02:26 PM
I liked Jon Jackson's book On Edge. There was a lot of autobiography, but it was pretty spot on with the corruption.

escaflowne9282
12-31-2010, 07:43 PM
I liked Jon Jackson's book On Edge. There was a lot of autobiography, but it was pretty spot on with the corruption.

You mean like accusing Irina Slutskaya of being on steriods?

Debbie S
12-31-2010, 08:06 PM
You mean like accusing Irina Slutskaya of being on steriods?I haven't read this book - is this a reference to her taking prednisone for her circulatory problems? Prednisone is technically a steroid (as are many asthma medications) but Irina had permission to take it b/c it was medically necessary. And having taken prednisone before (for an allergic reaction), I can tell you that there is nothing performance-enhancing about it.

escaflowne9282
12-31-2010, 08:24 PM
I haven't read this book - is this a reference to her taking prednisone for her circulatory problems? Prednisone is technically a steroid (as are many asthma medications) but Irina had permission to take it b/c it was medically necessary. And having taken prednisone before (for an allergic reaction), I can tell you that there is nothing performance-enhancing about it.

I have also taken prednisone before. Corticosteriods can have very severe side affects. However, in his book, he apparently accused the Russian Fed of giving Irina steriods to help her skating. Many here were very :confused: at the time because Irina had been diagnosed with pericarditis and it was very common knowledge for what reason she was taking steriods.

cruisin
12-31-2010, 08:37 PM
You mean like accusing Irina Slutskaya of being on steriods?

No, that was out of line. But the rest of it was pretty typical of what went on at competitions. The whole good ole' boy (gal) system at work. The politics and lobbying in the judges rooms. The selection of judges, the "who you know" stuff.

Nikki Lee
12-31-2010, 08:53 PM
[QUOTE=cruisin;2996344]The Lysecek/Plushenko issue is almost the exact situation that happened with Kwan/Lipinski, but with different results. Yes, Lipinski did the tripple/tripple and Kwan did not. However, eveything Kwan did, she did better than Lipinski. Kwan's jumps were higher, better rotated, her spins, spirals, skating were better. So, based on that result, it's understandable that Plushenko's quad would have been expected to be the deciding factor. QUOTE]

I used to agree that Kwan did everything better until I watched Kwan's 98 Olympic program from another angle, without commentary. Her triple flip was not good and she finished behind her music....this made me relax about Lipinski winning. That night, Tara was better.

Coco
01-02-2011, 06:00 PM
But corticosteroids aren't banned, though. They aren't performance enhancing like anabolic steroids are.

Dragonlady
01-02-2011, 08:34 PM
But corticosteroids aren't banned, though. They aren't performance enhancing like anabolic steroids are.

Prednisone is on the restricted list. You must be precleared to take the drug and provide the ISU with evidence that it is medically necessary. Clearances are not easy to obtain.

leafygreens
01-04-2011, 02:30 PM
Stupid publisher.

I've only recently had the chance to compare Lysacek's and Plushenko's LPs and I'm surprised it was as close as it was. Lysacek's spins are faster, better centered and his footwork is generally better and his jump landings were a lot better. Lysacek has one iffy landing that was still better than several of Plushenko's landings. I'm in awe that Plushenko could land some of those jumps at all considering his horrible air position but rescuing a bad jump isn't the same as landing a good jump. (nb I've never been a Lysacek fan)

Overall I'll agree that Plushenko is the better jumper but he didn't deliver on the night. He took a hot mess of a 6.0 program to a CoP competition and a skater who understood and worked with the format actually being used deservedly beat him. Plushenko should have been thrilled with the silver instead of getting in a snit.

ITA! Evan's technique pushed him over the top. Plushy already has a gold (and 2 silvers!) - why is he so bitter?


I feel like I win this from you every month!!!

I like Plushenko's program so much better because he tried to keep the quad trend in the Olympics going! Kulik and Yagudin and himself 2006. Lysacek was happy about ending the quad trend at the Olympics and if that makes him smart and strategic and clever and I'll take stupid, outdated 6.0 thinking! I guess I am interested if she says it is good or bad for the sport that Lysacek didn't do a quad.

What is the point of doing a whole program if all you need is a quad? Just do a jumping pass and then decide the Olympic winner.

leafygreens
01-04-2011, 02:45 PM
But, then we have the deals: If country X gets this GM, then country Y gets, this GM, and country Z gets.... We can pretend it doesn't happen, but it does. What goes on in the judges rooms is dealing, negotiating. Even before the event, the lobbying starts. Judges who are not even on panels (and don't belong there) go into the judges rooms.

IMO this is why V&M won over D&W. We can't go giving the same country two golds after Evan won the American's fair share.

cruisin
01-04-2011, 03:21 PM
IMO this is why V&M won over D&W. We can't go giving the same country two golds after Evan won the American's fair share.

I agree (about the can't give one country two golds). However, in this case it was a toss up, for me. Giving either V&M or D&W the gold was fair. Unlike other times where it clearly is :confused:. Where I think they were way off was 3rd place. I think B&A should have been 3rd. D&S, aside from the offensiveness of their OD, did not skate as well. But, we couldn't have 3 NA teams on the podium for the O's - :eek:.

danceronice
01-04-2011, 03:49 PM
Prednisone is on the restricted list. You must be precleared to take the drug and provide the ISU with evidence that it is medically necessary. Clearances are not easy to obtain.

Which is kind of odd, as at the dosages you generally have to take for immunosuppression, it's certainly NOT a performance enhancer. (If anything, you often wish you were dead because it would probably feel better. It's really, really, NOT a fun drug to be on if you absolutely don't have to be.)