PDA

View Full Version : Jean Senft's Book "Triumph on Ice: The New World of Figure skating"



Pages : 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8

pat c
12-24-2010, 05:02 PM
I just remember that Grischuk & Platov fell at NHK and that started the ball rolling for a mandatory deduction. But I can't remember what year that actually came to pass. I know it was there for 2001-02.

Dragonlady
12-24-2010, 05:12 PM
It was after the 1998 Olympics and the investigation that followed.

I remember at the start of the 1999/2000 season the CBC interviewed Speedy on TV and he talked about the rule changes they had implemented with regards to deductions for falls, and other scoring changes to dance to make it less subjective.

Speedy also admitted in the interview that block judging had become a problem.

walei
12-24-2010, 05:21 PM
For sure there were some who felt B&K were held down, but at 2001 Worlds the protest was generally against protocol judging. There was no movement in the standings during the three parts of the ice dance competition IIRC. Add to that outrage about D&V, a more beloved team in Canada than B&K, and outrage about the Italians winning as well.

D&V is more beloved than B&K in Canada???

clarie
12-24-2010, 05:54 PM
D&V is more beloved than B&K in Canada???

:lol::lol:I hardly think so!

pat c
12-24-2010, 07:16 PM
D&V is more beloved than B&K in Canada???


B&K had lost their unconditional acceptance by 2001. ;)

I was at worlds in 01, and everyone around me and the people (general fans that I did not know) that I walked up the hill from GM were all outraged about D&V's result, not so much B&K's. I guess it depended on where you were sitting. ;)

gkelly
12-24-2010, 08:04 PM
There was also the whole brouhaha earlier in the season at the 1997 NHK Trophy with some strange block ordinals in the dance event... does anyone have the details on that situation?


I just remember that Grischuk & Platov fell at NHK and that started the ball rolling for a mandatory deduction. But I can't remember what year that actually came to pass. I know it was there for 2001-02.

From memory (I don't have access to my tapes of the event right now):

The fall deduction was first introduced at 1998 Worlds, right after the Olympics. The first team affected by it was Stekolnikova/Kazarlyga, who fell in the free dance and finished last (24th) in that phase of the event, 20-21 in the CDs and OD, and 22nd overall. (I do have the protocol from '98 Worlds handy. ;) )

Platov fell in the free dance at 1997 Lalique and in the OD at 1998 Europeans (G&P lost that phase of the event to Krylova/Ovsiannikov, the only time K&O beat them in regular ISU competition). As I recall their performances at NHK were fine and their win there was undisputed.

The controversy about 1997 NHK was about the 2nd and 3rd place ordinals between Bourne/Kraatz and Fusar Poli/Margaglio, especially in the OD. B&K took 2nd place in every phase of the event, but the OD was a 5-4 split to a team who had never been close to them in the standings before.The same four judges who had FP&M 2nd in the OD also had similar or identical ordinals for other teams in the OD, and to a lesser extent similar patterns held in the CD and FD. The accusation was that this bloc of judges had conspired to boost the standings of the teams from each other's countries.

There were similar accusations, I believe involving some of the same judges, about the the 1998 Olympic dance event, primarily focused on Anissina/Peizerat's bronze.

I have no idea how much those accusations were true. All the accusers and defenders have their own agendas, and most of the evidence is hearsay.

pat c
12-24-2010, 10:21 PM
From memory (I don't have access to my tapes of the event right now):

(snipping)

Platov fell in the free dance at 1997 Lalique and in the OD at 1998 Europeans (G&P lost that phase of the event to Krylova/Ovsiannikov, the only time K&O beat them in regular ISU competition). As I recall their performances at NHK were fine and their win there was undisputed.

Ok, thanks. I haven't watched that comp in years. I just remember something do with NHK as B&K were at that one, as well as Balkov and Senft. But certainly I could be mixing up the comps from 12 years ago. ;)

alilou
12-24-2010, 11:02 PM
I'm Canadian and was at 2001 worlds. I have no memory of B&K at that competition, but I sure remember being outraged that D&V didn't get the bronze.

Debrah
12-25-2010, 03:16 PM
I was also there in the stands and on my side of the rink, it was definitely about D&V not getting the bronze, no one was really surprized about B&K.

Seerek
12-25-2010, 06:52 PM
Interestingly, B&K were only 1 judge away from the bronze over L&A based on these
Free Dance marks from the 2001 World Championships (http://www.icecalc.org/events/wc2001/results/SEG130.HTM)

D&V weren't as close...they were only able to get 2 judges over L&A and 1 judge over B&K...

Skate Talker
12-27-2010, 09:31 PM
okay guys - iirc the reason there was not so much outrage about Bourne & Kraatz in 2001 is that Shae had been out with surgery and they were only back on the ice a short time before worlds so the were not on the top of their game and a lower placement was really expected. I think generally Canadians were relieved that that were actually able to place as high as they did because the fear was that the injury would be used as an excuse by some judges to dump them big-time and for good - sort of like what happened to poor Moniotte and Lavanchy (sp?) of France. I remember that my skating fan friends and I thought their placement meant they did still have at least a chance at improving to an Olympic medal in 2002.

Sparks
12-27-2010, 11:49 PM
I just read this thread. Good to know that Kwan can still hijack a thread. :lol:

walei
12-28-2010, 01:16 AM
Yeah I get that in Vancouver 2001 Worlds B/K's 4th place were generally accepted, but that doesn't mean D/V is more loved than B/K. No. Way.

halffull
12-28-2010, 05:56 AM
I received this book for Christmas and look forward to reading it :)

Japanfan
12-30-2010, 09:10 AM
Yeah I get that in Vancouver 2001 Worlds B/K's 4th place were generally accepted, but that doesn't mean D/V is more loved than B/K. No. Way.

More by me, and I'm Canadian. And I loved B&K as well.

Now, about the book - I just got it out of library and all I can say is I'm glad I didn't buy it. It's a coffee table book with pretty pictures and some detailed descriptions of the NJS. But totally lacking in depth and insight. . .and :skandal.

I've only just started the book and maybe it will get more interesting - but I kind of doubt it.