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View Full Version : Jean Senft's Book "Triumph on Ice: The New World of Figure skating"



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caseyedwards
12-22-2010, 12:20 AM
Congrats: You win the "retarded post of the month" award.

Saying Lysacek won because he very cleverly built his program to maximise points (he had the highest levels and a lot of jumps placed in the second half, including all of the combinations) is equivalent to saying "Plushenko sucks - Lysacek is the best?"

I feel like I win this from you every month!!!

I like Plushenko's program so much better because he tried to keep the quad trend in the Olympics going! Kulik and Yagudin and himself 2006. Lysacek was happy about ending the quad trend at the Olympics and if that makes him smart and strategic and clever and I'll take stupid, outdated 6.0 thinking! I guess I am interested if she says it is good or bad for the sport that Lysacek didn't do a quad.

Allen
12-22-2010, 12:24 AM
I like Plushenko's program so much better because he tried to keep the quad trend in the Olympics going! Kulik and Yagudin and himself 2006. Lysacek was happy about ending the quad trend at the Olympics and if that makes him smart and strategic and clever and I'll take stupid, outdated 6.0 thinking! I guess I am interested if she says it is good or bad for the sport that Lysacek didn't do a quad.

So, Plushenko should have won because of the inclusion of 1 jump? I think it's great to push for the quad, but the rest of that program was really lacking in content as far as components are concerned. And by the by, how exactly do you know that Lysacek was "happy" to end the quad trend.

caseyedwards
12-22-2010, 12:33 AM
So, Plushenko should have won because of the inclusion of 1 jump? I think it's great to push for the quad, but the rest of that program was really lacking in content as far as components are concerned. And by the by, how exactly do you know that Lysacek was "happy" to end the quad trend.

I guess I don't know if he was happy but he was certainly proud of his win and made no apologies for it. I don't know. It is not just one jump. It is one jump plus 7 others and steps and spins and stuff. In terms of EVERYTHING a skater has to do I was more impressed with Plushenko.

Tak
12-22-2010, 12:33 AM
Stupid publisher.

I've only recently had the chance to compare Lysacek's and Plushenko's LPs and I'm surprised it was as close as it was.

IMO Daisuke should have won :saint:

cruisin
12-22-2010, 12:54 AM
For Senft it blew up in 1998.... She taped another judge trying to make a deal about pre-arranging the Nagano ice dance results - from guess what country! and ended up in more trouble than the judge who was offering her a deal...

(nb provocative interpretation of events designed to draw out other interpretations)

Well, then I guess she decided to play by the same corrupt rules. Because she certainly played her own games, especially where her daughter was concerned. But, then every single federation is complicit, some worse than others, but they all deal.

Gerard
12-22-2010, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by caseyedwards: <<it is good or bad for the sport that Lysacek didn't do a quad.>>[/QUOTE]


It would be great to do a quad!!! But a jump done past the half way mark of the program gets you more points (fair is it not???) - and if you cannot do it past the half way mark, what else can you do to maximize points? That is strategy, it makes for a better competition. It is not <<Yay for math...>> it is <<Yay for a set of measurable criteria>> and <<yay>> for you to appreciate the hard stuff.

escaflowne9282
12-22-2010, 06:46 AM
For Senft it blew up in 1998.... She taped another judge trying to make a deal about pre-arranging the Nagano ice dance results - from guess what country!
Ukraine!:P

caseyedwards
12-22-2010, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by caseyedwards: <<it is good or bad for the sport that Lysacek didn't do a quad.>>


It would be great to do a quad!!! But a jump done past the half way mark of the program gets you more points (fair is it not???) - and if you cannot do it past the half way mark, what else can you do to maximize points? That is strategy, it makes for a better competition. It is not <<Yay for math...>> it is <<Yay for a set of measurable criteria>> and <<yay>> for you to appreciate the hard stuff.

I mean this is why they raised the value of the quad and changed GOE. Triple jumps after the halfway point could turn into quad equivalents and that was not good for existence of the quad --which of course three Olympic champions had and was done for 10 straight world championships.

casken
12-22-2010, 08:25 AM
I know some people here think she is a Canadian homer who cheated just as badly as the people she tried to blow the whistle on.

It isn't about thinking that's what happened, it's the fact that the evidence shows that's what actually happened. She voted the order Balkov gave his "opinion" on, and when it didn't turn out the way she wanted, she came forward, and implicated herself with the tapes. To this day I still think it's genius and pretty hilarious that Balkov got her to vote L&A over A&P in the FD, a result that I don't think I've ever heard anyone be able to defend or agree with.

Let's be honest, if she got the result she was conspiring for (B&K on the podium), she never would have said a word. If she was about exposing cheating, she would have came forward before the games started to prevent it from happening.

She *should* be completely disgraced in Canadian skating for being a part of what they often claim to be the antithesis to, but whatevs... that's life.

senorita
12-22-2010, 10:39 AM
Plushenko had good levels in his spins and steps as well, he didnt just do a quad and left the arena, how many times would I read this? Watch his levels first. Lysacek was just better there in those elements. Yes his elements were great but warhorse music beats were on the right and he was on the left. And there is always an SP in competition as well, where Dai should have lead and Lysacek shouldnt have been even close.Does the book say in detail the sp? that both Lysacek and Plushenko were getting massive pcs in(each one in different departments) and if we wanna be openmind Dai should have won overall cause he delivered two great performances apart from the fall on the quad? Lysacek didnt have any call in the axels and Dai had edges call all over. It is not the great strategy and training that Lysacek won(like the others were just sitting on a couch instead of training) it is that the rest didnt deliver. In my opinion of course, it was not a CoP masterpiece a la Buttle at Worlds 2008 program.

clarie
12-22-2010, 02:26 PM
what is this "local library" you speak of? :P

Kingston Township library.........I have to take it back though:(

cruisin
12-22-2010, 02:52 PM
It isn't about thinking that's what happened, it's the fact that the evidence shows that's what actually happened. She voted the order Balkov gave his "opinion" on, and when it didn't turn out the way she wanted, she came forward, and implicated herself with the tapes. To this day I still think it's genius and pretty hilarious that Balkov got her to vote L&A over A&P in the FD, a result that I don't think I've ever heard anyone be able to defend or agree with.

Let's be honest, if she got the result she was conspiring for (B&K on the podium), she never would have said a word. If she was about exposing cheating, she would have came forward before the games started to prevent it from happening.

She *should* be completely disgraced in Canadian skating for being a part of what they often claim to be the antithesis to, but whatevs... that's life.

And now she gets to make some $$ with a book... more life.

Beefcake
12-22-2010, 04:17 PM
The public library in Vancouver BC has "newly acquired" this book and I put in a request, so should get it in a few months at the longest (it has to go through cataloging first).

So if you live in Canada you should be able to get it from your library - at least if you live in a big city.
:lol: My "what's this 'public library' you speak of?" was just poking fun that some of us, especially the young'ns, have never been to a public library. It's a nice old-fashioned institution that's kind've gone the way of milk deliveries.

overedge
12-22-2010, 09:30 PM
It isn't about thinking that's what happened, it's the fact that the evidence shows that's what actually happened.

Uh, no, the evidence does not show that. Unless you choose to interpret it that way.

Dragonlady
12-22-2010, 09:51 PM
It isn't about thinking that's what happened, it's the fact that the evidence shows that's what actually happened. She voted the order Balkov gave his "opinion" on, and when it didn't turn out the way she wanted, she came forward, and implicated herself with the tapes. To this day I still think it's genius and pretty hilarious that Balkov got her to vote L&A over A&P in the FD, a result that I don't think I've ever heard anyone be able to defend or agree with.

This is NOT what happened but I'm unable to obtain the exact details of what did happen, other than both Senft and Balkov were suspended, but I am absolutely certain that L&A were not part of the deal. Posters have conveniently twisted the facts to make Senft look as bad as possible, however Mrs. Senft appealed to the Court of Arbitration for sport and her appeal was upheld by the Court and she was exonerated. This little factoid seems to have escaped your retelling of events

Jean Senft was given the Order of Canada (Canada's highest honour) by the Governor General of Canada because of her courage in speaking out.