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View Full Version : Will going to 4CC help USA or CAN World team?



haribobo
12-13-2010, 11:35 PM
So 4CC is mid-February in Taipei and Worlds is late March in Tokyo. Do y'all think any of the US or CAN worlds team will go, and should they? Will it help them at all to be making 2 trips to Asia in the span of a month? I'm thinking no.

Bailey_
12-13-2010, 11:56 PM
How these skaters travel so much and deal with the jet lag, I will never know. I predict that the B teams will go.

Squibble
12-14-2010, 12:25 AM
I think just about everyone on those teams will go. The money and the ISU points are not to be sneezed at. The USFSA and (I think) Skate Canada won't allow anyone who declines an invitation to skate in exhbitions before Worlds. Furthermore, some potential Worlds team members (Mahbanoozadeh and Dornbush, for example) could really use the experience.

Tak
12-14-2010, 12:44 AM
I voted no -it's too much travelling so close to Worlds. Better for them to stay home and practice. However, I'd make an exception for V/M. If they really are going to compete at Worlds, they need judges feedback from their programs, so jetlag or not they really HAVE to go.

Squibble
12-14-2010, 01:44 AM
I voted no -it's too much travelling so close to Worlds. Better for them to stay home and practice.

I'm curious.

Why is one to Taiwan six weeks or so before Worlds "too much traveling" when it's not unheard of for North American skaters to go to a Grand Prix in Asia, a Grand Prix in Europe, and then the Grand Prix Final in Asia within six weeks (and maybe even a Senior "B" in Europe before the first Grand Prix?

hoptoad
12-14-2010, 01:45 AM
I think just about everyone on those teams will go. The money and the ISU points are not to be sneezed at. The USFSA and (I think) Skate Canada won't allow anyone who declines an invitation to skate in exhbitions before Worlds. Furthermore, some potential Worlds team members (Mahbanoozadeh and Dornbush, for example) could really use the experience.
I don't think that's true for USFS. I think they ask the skaters before Nationals which competitions they want to be considered for, then send in entries based on the results.

I like it best when different skaters go to Worlds, 4Cs and Jr. Worlds. :biggrinbo

Squibble
12-14-2010, 01:54 AM
I don't think that's true for USFS. I think they ask the skaters before Nationals which competitions they want to be considered for, then send in entries based on the results.

IIRC, two years ago, Johnny Weir said he didn't want to go to Four Continents (which was somewhere in Asia) and was then prohibited from doing any exhibitions.

It's a rule that makes sense. If a top skater doesn't want to represent the Federation at an ISU Championship, he shouldn't be able to line his own pockets by skating in exhibitions.

hoptoad
12-14-2010, 01:58 AM
I'm curious.

Why is one to Taiwan six weeks or so before Worlds "too much traveling" when it's not unheard of for North American skaters to go to a Grand Prix in Asia, a Grand Prix in Europe, and then the Grand Prix Final in Asia within six weeks (and maybe even a Senior "B" in Europe before the first Grand Prix?
I think it depends on their goals at Worlds and what works best for them training-wise. Fall comps are great for getting feedback on their programs, building reputation, etc., but I wouldn't begrudge a skater staying home in the six weeks before Worlds to train, nurse injuries, manage their peak for Worlds, or whatever else they think will help them perform their best at the biggest competition of the year.

hoptoad
12-14-2010, 02:03 AM
IIRC, two years ago, Johnny Weir said he didn't want to go to Four Continents (which was somewhere in Asia) and was then prohibited from doing any exhibitions.

It's a rule that makes sense. If a top skater doesn't want to represent the Federation at an ISU Championship, he shouldn't be able to line his own pockets by skating in exhibitions.

I don't remember the specifics of that one, but it was probably when the ISU was leaning on federations to send the top skaters. I understand that from the ISU's perspective, but I still like the athlete having the choice. i don't have any problem whatsoever with the prohibition on exhibitions in this case though. If they're taking a World's spot, that should be their priority. Let someone else go to Worlds if they'd rather do exhibitions than compete.

bardtoob
12-14-2010, 05:56 AM
To me, it is unfair to expect skaters from Four Continents countries to have the same obligations as European skaters have to Euros since travel time is so much different. I voted that it depends on the skater.


It's a rule that makes sense. If a top skater doesn't want to represent the Federation at an ISU Championship, he shouldn't be able to line his own pockets by skating in exhibitions.

There is a very interesting subtext to this comment. All I can say is that it is not like baseball, where the player can expect to be paid the same for every event in which he has a contractual obligation to participate.

zebobes
12-14-2010, 06:52 AM
Except for Olympic years, usually the world team goes to 4CC as well- at least for the US

Tak
12-14-2010, 07:32 AM
I'm curious.

Why is one to Taiwan six weeks or so before Worlds "too much traveling" when it's not unheard of for North American skaters to go to a Grand Prix in Asia, a Grand Prix in Europe, and then the Grand Prix Final in Asia within six weeks (and maybe even a Senior "B" in Europe before the first Grand Prix?

It's the timing of it - basically as Hoptoad said - the closer you get to worlds, the more you want to work on your programs and not upset your training schedule. The GP series is where you're looking for judges input - if there are problems with your program you can fix it - and most top dancers [or all skaters maybe] usually get at least 1 GP event on their own continent. This year C/P got 2.

ETA - And it's more like 4 weeks between end of 4CC and start of Worlds - not 6 weeks. And that doesnt include travel time to/from, plus recovering from jetlag - which from my own experience is hellish between US and Asia.

Stephanie
12-14-2010, 11:00 AM
My best guess would be that the medal contenders (Davis/White, Abbott, Chan) skip it in order to train but the other world team members go for the experience, points, and prize money.

haribobo
12-14-2010, 02:37 PM
So far Alissa Czisny has competed at 2 GP events, GPF, and Mids in the span of 2 months. If she qualifies for Worlds, I could definitely see her skipping 4CC. Hard to guess what Mirai or Ashley would do. With men, there's Abbott, Bradley, Mroz, Rippon, Dornbush, Mahbanoozadeh, Messing, Hochstein, Brown, and Razzano competing for those Worlds/4CC/Jr. Worlds spots (and maybe Cassar, Johnson, and Dyer too if they are really on form)- so I'm kind of hoping there's not a lot of overlap- our top 3 guys and ladies could skip 4CC and we'd still have 3 strong skaters to send. I wonder if some of the Japanese 1st stringers (Mao, Miki, Akiko, Kanako, Daisuke, Nobu, and Takahiko) will go to 4CC- they've been showing up at everything under the sun it seems, I wouldn't mind seeing some new people get to go...

Skate Talker
12-14-2010, 04:43 PM
Except for Olympic years, usually the world team goes to 4CC as well- at least for the US

hmm - not the way I recall it at all. The way I remember it the full USA world team has only gone to the 4CC when it was in Vancouver, close to home and that year's worlds in LA, and also in the same arena to be used for the 2010 Olympics - so a chance to get familiar with the venue. Oh wait, maybe I'm forgetting and the same thing happened for the 4CC in Salt Lake City the year before the 2002 Olympics.

Maybe it would just be easier to say that both the USA and Canadian full world teams only rarely show up and only if the 4CC is being held in North America and usually only in the pre-Olympic year.

I should probably go scour the records for proof one way or the other but I won't. :lol: