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View Full Version : Phil Hersh - there still is time to enroll at Stanford for the winter quarter



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Skittl1321
12-15-2010, 09:28 PM
That's the problem. Rachel is cute, and not pretty, and she is perky, not elegant or glamorous compared to Mirai or Alissa.

I would say Rachael is pretty and perky, not cutesty. I think of Mirai more of the cute perky one. I would never say Mirai is elegant or glamourous, and I don't think her skating is either- she usually has fun programs, no super drama going on. Alissa is definetly elegant and glamorous.

I think Rachael needs to try a dramatic program, because while her off ice personality might be bubbly, it doesn't come across as real- when Mirai does bubbly on the ice, I believe it.

Sk8tn
12-15-2010, 09:34 PM
Rachael needs to find a coach/choreographer who will help her find her style. My biggest complaint about Rachael's skating is that it seems "disingenuous" to me. It's like she's smiling here and tossing her head there because someone told her to do it, not because it's natural for her. Someone needs to find a way to let the real Rachael express herself on the ice.

Back to the topic, I think she just had a bad skater for whatever reason. It happens. Sometimes skaters have an entire bad season, but are able to bounce back. Good luck to her in figuring it out.

When she did her own quick choreography on Improv Ice (to a Mary J Blige song), I was shocked at how much more musical she was, at how much more she emoted, and at how smart her off-the-cuff choreography was. She really needs someone who can bring that out and develop it.

pinky166
12-15-2010, 09:55 PM
I would say Rachael is pretty and perky, not cutesty. I think of Mirai more of the cute perky one. I would never say Mirai is elegant or glamourous, and I don't think her skating is either- she usually has fun programs, no super drama going on. Alissa is definetly elegant and glamorous.

I think Rachael needs to try a dramatic program, because while her off ice personality might be bubbly, it doesn't come across as real- when Mirai does bubbly on the ice, I believe it.

My fave Rachael program was An American in Paris because it was a little cutesy but not to the extreme and still came off as impressive and not cartoonish. I thought her SP from last season worked for her but her programs this season are less cutesy and more jazzy, which like for Leonova, doesn't work so well for Rachael. I think upbeat is good for her, but not too jazzy. I actually think picking more powerful music could help her image and make her seem more like a Slutskaya or Ando type of skater. I also think she might look better in unitards, she is very trim through the torso and I think it could help lengthen and straighten her lines.

Jammers
12-16-2010, 12:40 AM
I'm recalling Brian Boitano's transforming season in 1988 when he worked with Sandra Bezic. He went from cheese-tastic to an artist in less than 6 months.

That may be true but remember Boitano was a former World champion. Sandra had more to work with.

B.Cooper
12-16-2010, 01:19 AM
But hasn't Rachael spent the last year trying to convince all of us that she is "Miss Bubbly"??? [Hasn't she even used those words in backstage interviews: "I'm bubbly!" (giggle-giggle)] It was cute for the SP last year. This year, the fanning and all of the same moves look contrived.

This is the classical gal who skated to Mozart at age 13. Somebody obviously told her that Bubbly Sells.



Don't recall a program using Mozart by Flatt....

Flatt has used a mixture of classical (american, canadian, european, russian composers) as well as more contemporary "classical"....La Mer by Debussy, as well as big band and some movie themes/soundtrack music. So, a reasonable mix of music:
Composers including Gershwin, Debussy, Stravinsky, Bizet, Puccini, Brahms, Mathieu, Mancini, Rachmaninoff, Rogers/Wild, Marsalis


So, perhaps it isn't so much the type of music...maybe uptempo music suits her personality...as she appears to be a pretty happy upbeat kid imho. So, perhaps the "closeness" or similarity of choreography between the programs this season and last season are the problem. Flatt wouldn't be to blame...that comes from the choreographer and coach.

Looking at her USFS bio and music lists:

2010/2011 Season Notes (Lori Nichol choreographer)
SP Music: " Summertime/ Happy Feet Blues": Gershwin and Marsalis
LP Music: "Slaughter on Tenth Avenue": Rogers/Wild

2009/2010 Season Notes (4th season as USA lady: 1st; Oly and World Team): Lori Nichol choreographer
SP Music: "Sing, Sing, Sing" (Part 2) from Bob Fosse's Dancin'
FS Music: "Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini" by Sergei Rachmaninoff

2008/2009 Season Notes (3rd season as USA Sr lady: 2nd; 5th at Worlds in first yr Flatt was age eligible): Lori Nichol choreographer
SP music: "Moon River" from Breakfast at Tiffany's by Henry Mancini and "Piano Concerto No. 2" by Sergei Rachmaninov (Nichol choreography)
FS music: "Dialogue Du Vent et de La Mer" from La Mer by C. Debussy, "En Bateau from Petite Suite" by C. Debussy and "Dialogue Du Vent et de La Mer" from La Mer by C. Debussy (Nichol choreography). Flatt went back to Romantic Rhapsody (from prior season) for Worlds.


2007/2008 Season Notes (Second season as Sr lady in USA: 2nd; did Jr circuit internationallly and won JW)
SP music: "It Ain't Necessarily So" by George Gershwin (choreographed by Tom Dickson)
FS music: "Romantic Rhapsody" by Andre Mathieu (choreographed by Lori Nichol)

2006/2007 Season Notes (First yr Sr in USA: 5th)
SP music: "Scherzo: Allegro Molto from Trio No. 1 in B Major, Opus 8" by Brahms (choreographed by Lori Nichol)
FS music: "An American in Paris" by George Gershwin (choreographed by Tom Dickson)

2005/2006 Season Notes (Junior: 2nd) no notes on choroegraphers
SP music: "Nessun Dorma" from Giacomo Puccini's Turandot
FS music: Music from Carmen by Georges Bizet

2004/2005 Season Notes (Novice: 1st) no notes on choreographers
SP Music: "Summertime" by George Gershwin
FS Music: "Firebird" by Igor Stravinsky

And, to add, Hersh's rant was totally uncalled for. Flatt has had ONE poor competition, dealing with injuries, etc.
The kid made no excuses in her NBC/Universal Sports interviews. She's been hurt and had to be in a cast for a week leading up to the SGPF, resulting in being off the ice for a week. She was well trained and dealt with the pain at SA, and obviously had hoped that would happen in China.
NO one, including Flatt, would know the results until she tested herself in competition. I give her alot of credit for what she did. And, I suspect, it will only fuel Flatt moving towards USA Nationals.

geod2
12-16-2010, 01:30 AM
Like many here, I would like to see her skate to something more classical. I think she took Dorothy Hamill's advice on how she doesn't look/can't skate like other skaters too much to heart and she is actually turning into a caricature of a li'l Miss Perky blades.

...li'l Miss Perky blades... :rofl::lol:

Alissa's long flowing LP dress definitely "doesn't look like other skaters" this year, but ironically a longer dress like it would do wonders to improve Rachael's presence on the ice (or the unitard thing that pinky mentioned), IMHO..... along with some more appropriate music and choreography.
Trouble is, she's running out of time before Nationals so we'll being seeing the same package again, hopefully this time with jumps intact at least.

edonice
12-16-2010, 06:17 AM
When she did her own quick choreography on Improv Ice (to a Mary J Blige song), I was shocked at how much more musical she was, at how much more she emoted, and at how smart her off-the-cuff choreography was. She really needs someone who can bring that out and develop it.

We hear so much about Rachael making improvements, and not seeing them on the ice. I was starting to think she was plateauing. And then I saw her on Improv Ice and she seemed like a completely different skater, genuine and fun and even kind of sexy.

Also, I found this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xzvEfa_MKc

Twelve year old Rachael had greater speed, flow, and artistry than I'm seeing in her programs now, with the exception of her show program this year and her performance at Improv Ice. So it's in there somewhere. I hope she finds a coach and choreographer who can bring out her sleeping artist!

And look at her layback at twelve, it's beautiful.

neptune
12-16-2010, 10:08 AM
I don't know why but when Rachael strikes one of her cutesy poses while she skates it just makes me cringe.

I wouldn't put the blame on Rachael, though. In an interview last week, she said that the advice her choreographer gave her was:

Don't just stand there,
Let's get to it,
Strike a pose,
There's nothing to it.

;)



I think Rachael needs to try a dramatic program, because while her off ice personality might be bubbly, it doesn't come across as real- when Mirai does bubbly on the ice, I believe it.

Rachael is kind of like the female version of Todd Eldredge on the ice, at least in terms of personality. I think she needs to find something that highlights her intensity.



And look at her layback at twelve

Well, I'd rather do that now, but if you want us to wait till noon, hey, I can deal with it. ;)

reese
12-16-2010, 10:33 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hvYIYkNjfM

I think this was the first time I ever saw Rachael and I remember I was blown away by her musicality and her artistic potential. Listen to Peggy and Dick just gush about her presentation and stylish arms. This was a great piece of music for a 14-year-old: classical but fun, fresh but still detail-oriented. Imagine if she'd left Tom Zzzzzzzzzzzzz after this season. Maybe her skating could have gone in a totally different direction. Granted, this was Rachael pre-boobs and pre-hips, but other skaters have navigated puberty in a way that allowed them to use their new bodies to greater artistic advantage. I don't feel like her physical maturity really messed with her jumps too much, just her presentation, which is so weird. She just keeps going backwards. Her programs this year are so completely ridiculous that I long for 14-year-old Rachael's choreography.

leafygreens
12-16-2010, 02:11 PM
I'm just sick of her skating to all these American composer big band type Broadway songs and wearing primary color dresses (red/blue/yellow). She needs to think outside the box. I was shocked that her SP dress this year is actually a pretty teal but she went back to the unflattering red for the LP. Not to sound mean, but I think Rachael's body has developed into something that will never have a chance of being "elegant."

Yazmeen
12-16-2010, 02:26 PM
...li'l Miss Perky blades... :rofl::lol:

Alissa's long flowing LP dress definitely "doesn't look like other skaters" this year, but ironically a longer dress like it would do wonders to improve Rachael's presence on the ice (or the unitard thing that pinky mentioned), IMHO..... along with some more appropriate music and choreography.
Trouble is, she's running out of time before Nationals so we'll being seeing the same package again, hopefully this time with jumps intact at least.

ITA! I have a similar build to Rachael in the respect of being short waisted and not having long lines or limbs. Even at about my thinnest maintained weight, about 15 pounds ago, I had to avoid skating dresses with really short skirts because they made me look blocky and even more like a fireplug. I recently returned to the ice for my first performance in a while, just skating the "Dutch Waltz" in a new dance dress with shorter skirt in front, longer in back. One of our coaches commented that this skirt style and length was very flattering. I'm not suggesting Rachel use a dance dress, but something with a bit of a drop waist to lengthen her and a slightly longer skirt in back could do wonders for her and the look of her "lines." She really needs a dress designer who will be blunt about what flatters and what doesn't.

Frau Muller
12-16-2010, 03:30 PM
Don't recall a program using Mozart by Flatt....
....

I was thinking about the '07 Nationals SP, where she wore a golden dress. I remember that there was a big "to-do" about the possible under-rotation of her combo jump. The music certainly sounded Mozartian.

Sylvia
12-16-2010, 03:32 PM
I was thinking about the '07 Nationals SP, where she wore a golden dress. I remember that there was a big "to-do" about the possible under-rotation of her combo jump. The music certainly sounded Mozartian.
That was "Scherzo: Allegro Molto from Trio No. 1 in B Major, Opus 8" by Brahms (Flatt's first-ever program choreographed by Lori Nichol).

ETA: It's the youtube link posted by reese above. I liked this program a lot, along with her 2007-08 SP to Gershwin's "It Ain't Necessarily So" that was choreographed by Tom Dickson.

Jaana
12-16-2010, 04:58 PM
I think that the choreography in her sp and fs is great for her, the fault is that they look so similar. On the other hand I think that these type of programmes are the only ones where Flatt can kind of shine, IF she is in good condition. She did not seem that in GPF. Everything looked very forced, in my opinion.

Polymer Bob
12-16-2010, 06:13 PM
I'm not a big fan of Rachael, but I don't put much significance in a Grand Prix Final melt-down. I mean, she had to get to the Final before she could melt down. Maybe it was injury, maybe it was pain. Who knows? We will see what the situation is at Nationals.