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View Full Version : Phil Hersh - there still is time to enroll at Stanford for the winter quarter



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IceAlisa
12-13-2010, 04:01 AM
What an embarrassing outing. How the rock has fallen (and sunken fast!). And without the consistency, she really has nothing left to show for herself.

On one hand, if she was so injured this time that her training, preparation and condition were affected, she really should have stayed home to rest instead, to allow the injury to fully heal and avoid further aggravating it, and let the first alternate compete.

On the other, I understand Tom Z can be quite the harsh coach and proably forced her to compete despite the injury. My heart goes out to her. This outing does her much disservice by destroying her "rock" image, both as a competitor and a world team member.

Phil might have used some harsh words but a lot of what he said isn't necessarily untrue/ illogical.

This. Phil's style is nothing new, I am not sure why people are surprised.

AxelAnnie
12-13-2010, 04:20 AM
Only problem I have with Flatt is that she offered her injury excuse after her dismal performances.
If her injury was so serious and caused lack of preparation, then she did a disservice to herself and to the fans by showing up woefully unprepared and laying a two stink bombs to the figure skating community.

She should have just said I didn't perform well and take responsibility.

Couldn't agree with you more. Before the competition, the commentators were telling us that Rachel said she was injured, but that injury was not a problem for her.

As Hersh says:
But if you show up for a competition, you are expected to perform.
And IMO, truer words were never spoken........and I apply that sentiment to all skaters evenly. If you are injured, such that you can't get the job done, don't skate.

Rachel has done her reputation a good deal of harm. Never a particular favorite of the international judges, she picked a pretty bad time to try to get by......if in fact the injury was the issue.

I suspect injury and a week off the ice were not at fault. I hope she pulls herself out of what ever hole she is in, and defends her title with a good showing, or that she withdraws.

And, who does her choreography? I don't think her programs do her any favors. Carolina (and I am not a fan) is so gorgeous on the ice, and so expert at edging and speed, and has lovely line, musicality and choreography that when she misses a jump....at least there is much beautiful skating to enjoy. When the jumps allude Rachel (and Miki) there is not much left to enjoy.

Sasha'sSpins
12-13-2010, 06:06 AM
Except several people said pretty much the same thing in the thread. Just sayin.....

True-in this thread and others too.

I feel for Rachael. She's certainly no favorite of mine but I respect that she's a hard worker and just had a bad day at the office. Her jumps were clearly hampered by her foot injury. Didn't she lose a week of training?

That being said, even WITH the jumps Flatt's shortcomings are obvious. I wish she'd leave her coach. And change choreographers too. Imo she still has room (and plenty of time at just 18) for much improvement.

I can't argue with Phil about Alissa who to me was just ethereal even with some minor mistakes in her LP. I have renewed faith in Alissa and am crossing fingers she and Mirai are at the top of their game at Nationals-and on to Worlds!

geod2
12-13-2010, 10:24 AM
Only problem I have with Flatt is that she offered her injury excuse after her dismal performances.
If her injury was so serious and caused lack of preparation, then she did a disservice to herself and to the fans by showing up woefully unprepared and laying a two stink bombs to the figure skating community.

...so far so good.


She should have just said I didn't perform well and take responsibility.


...uh, I think she actually did.

geod2
12-13-2010, 10:28 AM
... if she had pulled out, she would have been crucified on this and other boards just as much.

...or, rather, crucified by USFSA????

The boards might've been understanding of her situation.
Just sayin'....

paskatefan
12-13-2010, 11:28 AM
I haven't had a chance to read this whole thread yet, but that is downright mean and cruel for PH to say those things about Rachel. I don't believe in writing off anyone!

Frau Muller
12-13-2010, 11:29 AM
Phil H. is spot-on, as usual.

Alissa was lovely...and darned lucky. AND it's in the ISU's interest to help 'create' a US lady star, for the sake of profit$...although that isn't necessarily Alissa, in the long run.

If not Alissa in the long term, then who is left? Ashley? - seems to be in decline after great hope through last year. Gao - not at all, as per latest GPF results. Zawadsky? - caved in her 2 GP assignments. Mirai? - still with the greatest potential, IMO, despite GP troubles. Caroline? - absolutely not. Then there is Rachael...

Rachael has simply not had the look, let alone the fully-rotated jumps, for a couple of seasons now. Moveon.org.

rfisher
12-13-2010, 11:36 AM
I'm sorry, but I find it :rofl: when posters trash Phil Hersh when he says almost exactly what was said in the PBP threads. He reads FSU, gets the pulse of the event, and then adds his own twist. He does it all the time and yet people continue to be outraged. I guess he's just an easy target. I will say, if he snarks on a skater, it causes some who also snark on said skater to rush to their defense. Lord knows there's been enough snarks made about Rachael even when she skates her normally consistent programs.

geod2
12-13-2010, 11:41 AM
Alissa was lovely...and darned lucky. .

"The harder I work, the more determined I am, the more I learn from failure....the luckier I get...".

;)


.

Oldsk8ter
12-13-2010, 02:54 PM
Should-a, would-a, could-a. You could apply these "what-if" type of situations to almost every event..

IF Mirai hit her layback at TEB, she would've won.

IF Akiko hit her second 3Lz at COR, she would've won.

IF Oda didn't Zayak at SA, he would've won.

The bottom line is, that Miki did bomb her SP, and Akiko and Carolina did pop jumps. It wasn't like these skaters all went out there and bombed. This was, by far, the strongest ladies FS of the season. Alissa took advantage of others' slight errors and was able to win.

And by the way, how is this not a "big deal" for her? Last year she was in tears after finishing 10th at US Nationals. 11 months later, she is on top of the podium at the GPF, her first ISU Championship medal, and a gold at that. This definitely is a BIG deal for her confidence and more importantly, for her career. Let's not undermine her achievements.

Jenna - you said it all perfectly. It was a big deal for Alissa and Rachel had a bad competition, as have Mao, Yu Na, and many other great skaters. It doesn't mean Rachel should hang up her skates and it was awesome for Alissa.

DickButtonFan
12-13-2010, 03:05 PM
I think it's the first time I ever saw rachael fall. I think she's still injured, hope she is ok.

Some people in the past have been so cruel on her weight it's just sad. Her problem is not her weight but her choreography. She is capable of so much more.

It's so unfair of Hersh to write off skaters so quickly, it's one of the toughest sports ever.

Polymer Bob
12-13-2010, 03:41 PM
I think reputation only works in one direction. Good reputation will boost a skater's scores, but I don't think there is bad reputation. Alissa should have had poor reputation going into this season, but that doesn't seem to have hurt her.

geod2
12-13-2010, 08:27 PM
No, Kiira Korpi was first alternate.

When you think about the pre-GPF mindset in the FS world, the prevailing view of consistency and performance under pressure of Alissa vs. Rachael,
I can't see USFSA officials being exactly thrilled at that time with the idea of losing one of the 2 U.S. spots to another country if Rachael had withdrawn from GPF.

Which leaves me wondering if (speculating, not saying it's so) ...if the USFSA "encouraged" team Flatt to hit the ice at GPF if there was even a chance she could be competitive....afterall, in their role as the governing body for USFS, they would have nothing to lose. Rachael, on the other hand.....
I assume most U.S. skaters and coaches at that level don't go out of their way to disappoint USFSA, especially when Kostner was competing with an injury.
We'll never know how personally difficult Rachael's decision was for her, if it was.

I hope she can bounce back and continue competing or retire with dignity on her own terms.


.

Frau Muller
12-13-2010, 08:47 PM
...if the USFSA "encouraged" team Flatt to hit the ice at GPF if there was even a chance she could be competitive....afterall, in their role as the governing body for USFS, they would have nothing to lose. ....
.

Yeah, especially since all the USFSA had to do was drive down the road a few blocks from their HQs to the World Arena to twist a couple of arms. They should have seen her situation right in front of them. Or maybe Rachael was fine before she left but aggravated the injury in Beijing?

museksk8r
12-13-2010, 08:56 PM
Alissa should have had poor reputation going into this season, but that doesn't seem to have hurt her.

No, it doesn't when everyone else around you is skating worse. Her LP in Canada was easily the best. Makarova made just enough mistakes and Phaneuf and Zawadzki tanked to pave the path for Czisny to the gold medal. Same with Ando's very poor SP at the GPF.