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ks777
12-10-2010, 09:28 PM
What matters is how you collect points. Kim and a good Asada collect more points on their jumps than either Ando or Rochette, thus their jumps are "better" in a competitive sense. Kristi could only do toe jumps as well and she was still a better jumper than Kerrigan or Bonaly who could do all kinds of jumps.

According to who? is that a fact or your assesment only? Kristi was never known for her jumping, if I remember correctly.

igniculus
12-10-2010, 09:29 PM
Samuel Contesti. He sleeps with his coach. :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Contesti

PML! :rofl:

doubleflutz
12-10-2010, 09:50 PM
According to who? is that a fact or your assesment only? Kristi was never known for her jumping, if I remember correctly.

She landed 3LZ-3T back in the Dark Ages, before most ladies were even bothering with 3T-3T. Her jumps were quite small, but she was absolutely a better jumper than Kerrigan and Bonaly. I think she gets overlooked as a jumper, because her biggest domestic rival was Tonya Harding, and internationally it was Midori Ito, who were both so good at their peak, they could have won the Men's event, at least as far as jumping goes.

pinky166
12-10-2010, 10:24 PM
Samuel Contesti. He sleeps with his coach. :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Contesti

Actually a good comparison, although Contesti probably is even more of a jumping bean than Miki (if that's possible) - his skating is really scratchy. He does usually do well for himself though and I'm sometimes :confused: at the PCS marks he gets. To me it seems like he has no flow and the skating skills of a novice, but the judges seem to think otherwise.

judgejudy27
12-11-2010, 06:12 PM
According to who? is that a fact or your assesment only? Kristi was never known for her jumping, if I remember correctly.

Kristi's jumps were more valuable to points than either Kerrigan or Bonaly (well atleast while she and Bonaly competed head to head). Doing a triple lutz- triple toe that was quite consistent, and consistently landing 2 triple lutzes, and 5 or 6 triples, despite hardly ever landing an edge jump other than sometimes a triple loop, was of more value than what either Kerrigan or Bonaly who was comfortable doing each triple bar the triple axel was putting out on a regular basis. If competitions were just scored on jumps from 89-92, there probably still isnt a single competition Kerrigan or Bonaly would have beaten her, or if there is one feel free to point out which it was, despite Kristi's small jumps and being only a toe jumper. The fact Kerrigan who was somewhat competitive on the 2nd mark never did beat Kristi in that period already reflects that.

smarts1
12-11-2010, 07:13 PM
Kristi's jumps were more valuable to points than either Kerrigan or Bonaly (well atleast while she and Bonaly competed head to head). Doing a triple lutz- triple toe that was quite consistent, and consistently landing 2 triple lutzes, and 5 or 6 triples, despite hardly ever landing an edge jump other than sometimes a triple loop, was of more value than what either Kerrigan or Bonaly who was comfortable doing each triple bar the triple axel was putting out on a regular basis. If competitions were just scored on jumps from 89-92, there probably still isnt a single competition Kerrigan or Bonaly would have beaten her, or if there is one feel free to point out which it was, despite Kristi's small jumps and being only a toe jumper. The fact Kerrigan who was somewhat competitive on the 2nd mark never did beat Kristi in that period already reflects that.

Well, Kerrigan never truly had a good training ethic before bombing her 93 Worlds LP, and Bonaly didn't really get stronger jumps until after the Olympics in Albertville (you know, her jumps were all over the place).

judgejudy27
12-11-2010, 07:21 PM
Well, Kerrigan never truly had a good training ethic before bombing her 93 Worlds LP, and Bonaly didn't really get stronger jumps until after the Olympics in Albertville (you know, her jumps were all over the place).

Yes this is very true. Still being equally adapt at toe and edge jumps doesnt neccessarily make you a better jumper as far as competitive worth than someone who isnt. Kim if she jumps her best will still produce more points without a triple axel or triple loop will produce more points just out of jumps than even peak Miki Ando, let alone the current Miki Ando who doesnt do as difficult of jump combinations or as many triples as she used to. Likewise Asada with her 3 axels does not need to do all the triples to produce more points from jumps than Ando. Kim only has one really off triple of the main 5 anyway- the loop, and Kristi- the salchow, so it isnt that big a deal. It is not like Miki Ando ever was doing a triple axel or has done her quad since the dinosaurs roamed the earth either.

ks777
12-11-2010, 07:37 PM
Well back to the topic, I still think Miki is a good jumper and not just ok jumper.

sson4won
12-11-2010, 07:43 PM
Yuna can only jump with her toes. Her edge jumps are :blah:. Miki's really the only female out there who knows how to jump with edges and with toes.

Mao has odd technique on many of her jumps (which is why she's trying to fix them), and Rochette probably comes closest to Miki in term of jumps.

:confused:

I don't want to argue about Yuna's jump here, but let me clarify this one.
Her Salchow and Axel are good. Not saying best(I think they are best though) but good enough call her an excellent jumper.


And I picked VDP cause when I saw this title his name just came up.:lol:

MikiAndoFan#1
12-11-2010, 07:51 PM
:confused:

I don't want to argue about Yuna's jump here, but let me clarify this one.
Her Salchow and Axel are good. Not saying best(I think they are best though) but good enough call her an excellent jumper.

Yu-Na's Salchow is definately not good. She doesn't achieve very much height on that jump and it just looks awkward. Even her Loop is better than her Salchow. Her Axel, however, is great.

burntBREAD
12-11-2010, 07:55 PM
Yu-Na's Salchow is definately not good. She doesn't achieve very much height on that jump and it just looks awkward. Even her Loop is better than her Salchow. Her Axel, however, is great.

Yes, her Salchow is so low. I also agree that her loop is better. She just can't do her loop simply because of injury and her body structure, but it's actually a better jump. Her axel is definitely excellent, look at all the combos she can put off of that jump.

pinky166
12-11-2010, 07:58 PM
Well back to the topic, I still think Miki is a good jumper and not just ok jumper.

Agreed. She won the FS today by quite a large margin, even though she was still only 5th overall. Also that 2a-3t is gorgeous and looks so easy for her, she really needs to start going for it every time.

Lainerb
12-11-2010, 09:37 PM
In terms of current ability, Yu Na Kim for sure. Possibly even Rochette. And last year Asada. Miki doesnt even do 3-3 combos anymore, atleast ones that are ratified.

Miki's TES from jumps at GPF: 49.26

Rochette's TES from jumps at Japan Open: 41.98

:P

Nearly the difference of a 3axel.

chipso1
12-11-2010, 09:49 PM
Miki's TES from jumps at GPF: 49.26

Rochette's TES from jumps at Japan Open: 41.98

:P

Nearly the difference of a 3axel.

Your point? Do you really think it's accurate to compare points from an event in early October (for which Rochette was a last minute replacement and obviously wasn't training full-out for)? :rolleyes:

judgejudy27
12-11-2010, 09:50 PM
Thats nice, so why not compare just their TES from jumps of both at the Japan Open. If Rochette was not a semi retired skater who competed all season she obviously would have improved a great deal as the season went along just like everyone else has, and just like she and others always have in the past. Heck the level of the ladies so far this season even someone like Rochette would have won everything so far, unless she had a splatfest somewhere along the way.