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aftershocks
12-07-2010, 12:51 AM
... Every time there's a hint of Jeremy criticisms there're ubers to the rescue, :) :) to the point that sometimes I think constructive criticisms also get unsaid. :( In fact, many criticisms on Abbott would never raise so much of an eyebrow had it been say, Caroline Zhang.

... You may think so-and-so is nice and doesn't deserve harsh words, but who's to say Lysacek isn't nice in his own tough-guy sort of way?


Huh? Oh well, I think jlai and museksk8r are probably not too far off the same page, as it seems they both do like Abbott. I agree with museksk8r that Abbott receives his fair share of criticism, especially from the judges. His low key personality as well as his subtle music this season (but difficult free program) hasn't been getting him the full recognition he deserves. Because of his low-key personality, he was able to do well kind of under the radar, when Johnny and Evan took up most of the media attention. Now, we will see how Abbott fares at upcoming Nats going in more as the favorite.

As far as the blogger's overall message, yeah, not good for fs to overmark Chan when he has marred performances. Both he and the sport will pay in the long run, should this kind of favoritism continue. It probably won't tho' as so much attention has been given to it. In fs, things run in cycles in any case. Also, note that the blogger is not blaming Chan. I do agree tho' that her focus should not be that Chan's marks kept Americans out of the GPF, just that the overmarking was unfair in general to Chan's competitors, to the audience, and to the sport.

And, Chan apologists, this is not a bash against Chan. He has some excellent skills and an influential federation behind him. Nothing wrong with that. I think it's okay for fans to call foul tho' and place the blame for the odd scoring on the judges, where it belongs. Results kinda reminded me of 2005 Worlds where Buttle won a silver medal with two falls, when others with comparable skills skated well, stayed on their feet, but were off the podium.

topaz
12-07-2010, 12:58 AM
American men kept themselves out of the final. No other way to look at it.

I disagree. I think Jeremy skated very well at NHK, but his scoring always seems low regarding the PCS.

I'm not an uber about Jeremy's skating but I do think he is underscored in PCS internationally.

topaz
12-07-2010, 01:00 AM
I don't know what skating boards you go to, but Abbott certainly does get criticized for his lack of international resume. He certainly has been bashed often over his Worlds and Olympics performances. I'm not sure how you get the impression that his competitive shortcomings have gone unscathed. :confused: If he doesn't get as badly criticized as others, it's because he's generally a nice, humble guy who is respectful towards his competitors. I think he, Tomas Verner, and Michal Brezina all attended the same school to be gentlemen on (and off) ice.

He is a two time US National Champion, I think this carries some clout. This is the man who beat a World and Olympic Gold medist two years in a row at National.

If the international judges don't hold that in regard, then its sad.

pinky166
12-07-2010, 01:06 AM
I've been slacking on the GP series but does it have to do with Alissa winning one of her GP events?

I think the poster more meant why did Alissa beat Cynthia at TEB. If it were up to me, I would have had Alissa in 4th at TEB and Cynthia in 3rd because Alissa's FS was just well pretty bad and Cynthia's was much better, but Cynthia got lowballed on PCS and therefore ended up 4th behind Alissa. That being said, had Alissa come in 4th at TEB and Cynthia come in 3rd there, Alissa still would have qualified for the GPF and Cynthia still would have not qualified so it really doesn't make that big a difference. Plus the margin of Czisny's victory over Phanuef at TEB was just a few points, which she obviously earned with her amazing spins, so it's not too big a deal, and further Cynthia did beat Alissa in the FS there (albeit barely). Also no way can you argue Cynthia deserved to beat Alissa at SC, the only person you can even argue that should have beaten Alissa at SC was Ksenia but seeing as she's a newcomer I think we all knew what was going to happen with her PCS.

luCN
12-07-2010, 01:50 AM
Thank you jlai,what you said is exactly I thought.:D

oh,museksk8r,don't get me wrong.I love Abott's programs and respect him.I know Abott is the first America male skater who won the GPF,while many people still don't know that now.But when we discuss something,we must base on the fact,right?;)

After TEB,Florent\Abott\Brandon had the same score,and Florent is about nine point higher than Abott,so he made the GPF.IMO,nine point wasn't a too huge gap consider how many mistake he made in his LPs on NHK and COR.if he did better,he can fulfill it easily,while not nead to change the podium.

pinky166
12-07-2010, 02:12 AM
He is a two time US National Champion, I think this carries some clout. This is the man who beat a World and Olympic Gold medist two years in a row at National.

If the international judges don't hold that in regard, then its sad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVttluHZRGg

At 5:50, the commentators say:

"Well, he knows the US Championships took place this past weekend. Jeremy Abbott absolutely wiped the floor with Evan Lysacek and Abbott in brilliant form and this is the response from Europe from Evgeni Plushenko at the start of these European Championships."

THAT is why people are disappointed with Jeremy, one so capable of wiping the floor with Evan Lysacek :lol: has no business coming in 9th (and that 9th place was generous, he could have easily been lower) when Evan Lysacek won the gold medal and beat Evgeni Plushenko at the Olympics.

centerpt1
12-07-2010, 02:37 AM
Had Abbott performed at Olys the way he did at nationals, he'd be the Oly champ now'

His dismal performance there has likely had an effect on his international PCS scores. He needs to get his performance level up to where it was in 2010 again.......and so far, this year, he hasn't. His spins are usually a strength, but now they are a liability. His jumps have been smaller than usual, and he missed his one quad. His SP doesn't really suit him...and his attitude (per twitter) is haters gonna hate. His LP suits him, but is unusual in format for a male skater, and I think this innovation will not help his scores, especially with the european judges. The new rules do not help him.

I don't know if it's boot issues, lack of training, distraction...but...he is not performing at the same level he was last year.

Somehow, he needs to buckle down and get training to get his skillls back up there.. if he is serious about contending

(and I'm a fan of his skating)

((is that tough enough?))

jlai
12-07-2010, 03:46 AM
(and I'm a fan of his skating)

((is that tough enough?))

Oh, you are a meanie! ;) :lol:

NOw back to regular programming. Chanflationhaters Episode 2. :barrel

aaron
12-07-2010, 03:54 AM
Jeremy said in the press conference that he had been having boots problem since beginning of this season and haven't had much time to prepare for GPS. His programs are amazing though. If he could get his elements all together, preferably with the quad, I'm sure there's a good chance of him being on the World podium.

centerpt1
12-07-2010, 03:55 AM
Oh, you are a meanie! ;) :lol:

NOw back to regular programming. Chanflationhaters Episode 2. :barrel



Mroz was the next-on-the-list american man Chan supposedly did out of a place.

You want me to get mean on him, too??? :angryfire

Argh! Don't think I have it in me. (plus I havent been watching Mroz closely enough to comment-other than I like his programs better this year)

jlai
12-07-2010, 04:00 AM
Mroz was the next-on-the-list american man Chan supposedly did out of a place.

You want me to get mean on him, too??? :angryfire



Considering the recent Free-Mroz movements, I think it's time to be mean on the coach. ;)

Anyway, the thread comes down to this: Either CHan is very gifted skater or he is a very "gifted" skater. Either way, same thing! :P

BigB08822
12-07-2010, 04:03 AM
I don't think Abbott would have won the Olympics even if he repeated his Nationals performances. I think he would have been fighting for 3rd place. The judges were giving the gold to Evan or Plushenko if they skated clean and they both did. Abbott would have been robbed and finished with bronze if he was lucky.

Rock2
12-07-2010, 04:18 AM
Maybe the author of this piece should watch some Canadian skating on TV and be informed as to how COP works instead of whining about the American boys getting left out of the GP final.


omg, God bless.

I just wish people on here would change the battlecry to "let's change the ISU rulebook which right now favors skaters like Patrick Chan" instead of suggesting Chan was overscored or gifted.

I agree with professordeb. Learn the rules, people. Just try. It's not hard. They are being fairly applied, so he is not gifted or overscored.

Chan bash all you want; proves nothing other than the fact you don't understand CoP in the least.

gkelly
12-07-2010, 04:24 AM
I just wish people on here would change the battlecry to "let's change the ISU rulebook which right now favors skaters like Patrick Chan" instead of suggesting Chan was overscored or gifted.

I agree with professordeb. Learn the rules, people. Just try. It's not hard. They are being fairly applied, so he is not gifted or overscored.

Exactly. The changes to the way quads and triple axels are scored, even with mistakes, were made in response to lobbying by people like Joubert who wanted to see the difficulty and risk of rotating those jumps more highly rewarded.

It just so happens that those new scoring rules also help anyone who rotates quads and triple axels, including Chan, at the same time that Chan's skating skills and transitions are the class of the field and are being appropriately rewarded.

ks1227
12-07-2010, 05:11 AM
I just wish people on here would change the battlecry to "let's change the ISU rulebook which right now favors skaters like Patrick Chan" instead of suggesting Chan was overscored or gifted.

I agree with professordeb. Learn the rules, people. Just try. It's not hard. They are being fairly applied, so he is not gifted or overscored.


Exactly. The changes to the way quads and triple axels are scored, even with mistakes, were made in response to lobbying by people like Joubert who wanted to see the difficulty and risk of rotating those jumps more highly rewarded.

It just so happens that those new scoring rules also help anyone who rotates quads and triple axels, including Chan, at the same time that Chan's skating skills and transitions are the class of the field and are being appropriately rewarded.

:cheer2: :respec: :cheer2: :respec: :cheer2: