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Dragonlady
12-14-2010, 01:28 PM
Whoever wants to win a medal skates for the judges, nobody goes to a competition to show the audience his ice coverage. If a skater said so, he/she lied. :)

Skaters are supposed to show the judges ice coverage. It was part of the presentation mark. Plushenko seemed exempt from this requirement.

professordeb
12-14-2010, 01:45 PM
FSU doesnīt mean audience and doesnīt mean FS fandom. I know that FSU posters didnīt realize it yet but I hope that someday they will. :rolleyes:

Whoever wants to win a medal skates for the judges, nobody goes to a competition to show the audience his ice coverage. If a skater said so, he/she lied. :)

Since it is on this board we are discussing this topic, it makes sense that I am referring to posts made by those here. I realize you weren't a poster to this board waaaaay back in the day since you have only joined about 6 months ago, but there was a lot of discussion about about judge-centric programs versus those who didn't.

Again I say, you began with the comment that Chan wouldn't get the marks he does from the judges if fans weren't in the seats. To me this says that you believe the judges are influenced more by fans being in their seats watching a skater rather than what the skater is doing on the ice. My response was that it's not about the fans but what the judges see and judge and hence programs are performed for the judges. At least on this point we agree.

As for the Plushenko comment - when he was much younger, many noticed that his ice coverage in his programs were minimal compared to other skaters and ice coverage WAS a big deal then. Yes, he had the jumps and the balls to perform them in front of the judges but his programs seemed kind of "small" because he used a lot less of the ice to perform them. His programs were judge centric in this manner - staying within a small area of the entire rink as opposed to the judge-centric type to which you seem to be referring to - one that is performed for the judges to mark. Since those days, there have been a number of changes as to what the judges are to look for when they are giving out marks and COP makes it very specific.

Regardless of who is skating - whether it be Chan or anyone else - the judges will hand out the marks appropriate to the criteria they must use and apply it to what takes place on the ice and not who is doing what in the crowd or even if there is one. Chan will continue to get his high marks as long as he continues to skate the way he has this season. YOU may not like it, but that's just the way things are right now.

BTW, I would have to agree with some other posters. If the American men really wanted to go to the GPF they should have done better themselves when competing. I'm pretty sure it was more than just Chan who kept those poor boys away from GPF. If you really think about it, it actually gives them more time at home to work on their programs and perhaps iron out what they didn't do and how they can do better.

ciocio
12-14-2010, 02:33 PM
Skaters are supposed to show the judges ice coverage. It was part of the presentation mark. Plushenko seemed exempt from this requirement.

Oh, thanks, now I understand what professordeb ment. :)

ciocio
12-14-2010, 02:40 PM
Chan will continue to get his high marks as long as he continues to skate the way he has this season. YOU may not like it, but that's just the way things are right now.

BTW, I would have to agree with some other posters. If the American men really wanted to go to the GPF they should have done better themselves when competing. I'm pretty sure it was more than just Chan who kept those poor boys away from GPF. If you really think about it, it actually gives them more time at home to work on their programs and perhaps iron out what they didn't do and how they can do better.

No, I didnīt complain about Chanīs marks and I donīt think that American skaters were robbed.:lol: But I do think that using the remote control when he is skating itīs better than arguing all day long about his supposedly inflated marks. :lol::lol::lol::argue: Not my case because usually I like Chan.:2faced:
Thanks to Dragonlady Iīve also understood your story about Plushenko and the ice coverage. Iīve been reading FSU for a very long time, long before joining, but not so long to remember that he was called "blond-haired pup".:plush:

professordeb
12-14-2010, 08:07 PM
No, I didnīt complain about Chanīs marks and I donīt think that American skaters were robbed.:lol: But I do think that using the remote control when he is skating itīs better than arguing all day long about his supposedly inflated marks. :lol::lol::lol::argue: Not my case because usually I like Chan.:2faced:
Thanks to Dragonlady Iīve also understood your story about Plushenko and the ice coverage. Iīve been reading FSU for a very long time, long before joining, but not so long to remember that he was called "blond-haired pup".:plush:

NP and glad DL could clear things up. Didn't realize you were a fan of Chan's only because of how you phrased a sentence and what I took it to mean. All's good between us as far as I'm concerned. :D

julieann
12-14-2010, 08:39 PM
Plushy was skating, so it seemed, only for the judges. It seemed to matter not how the audience felt about his skating.

As it should be considering the judges are the ones who give out the medals.

gkelly
12-14-2010, 09:01 PM
Plushy was skating, so it seemed, only for the judges. It seemed to matter not how the audience felt about his skating.


As it should be considering the judges are the ones who give out the medals.

Skaters who want to win need to consider what the judges are looking for first and foremost.
(And, now, the technical panel. E.g., many judges would probably prefer to see more level 1 spins executed beautifully, but if the skater can get credit for a level 4 spin, he'll probably choose the more complicated spin and settle for lower GOE.)

The judges are supposed to consider the orientation of the program in 3-dimensional space as one of the criteria for choreography.

But if the skater does a good job of playing to the judges, many judges might not notice how judge-centric it is, whereas the audience members who only get to see the skater's back or never get to see him close up will be sure to notice.

If a skater knows that the highest medals are probably out of reach given his own skills and the strength of the rest of the field, and if he enjoys performing for audiences and draws energy from their reaction and/or wants to make a career of skating in shows between or after his competing years, he might choose to put more attention on skating for the audience's benefit, even if doing so will not help his results with the judges. Different skaters might have different priorities.