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Dragonlady
12-13-2010, 08:56 PM
Knowing you can fall 4 times and still win has gotta give a skater a huge amount of confidence. Had a message been sent to Chan in Canada that that can't happen, it would have rattled him more and the urgency to skate clean in Russia would have been greater. Instead, he was able to cruise and crash his way to a silver medal knowing that he already had GP Canada gold in his pocket.

No athlete wants to win while falling four times and the idea that Chan "cruised and crashed" his way to the GPF is laughable. Patrick was interviewed by NBC and he talked about how upsetting it was to have all these falls - so much so that he worked with Brian Boitano on eliminating same.

At the time of his earlier GP events, Patrick talked about how disconcerting it was to try to inject the quad into his program. He said he didn't understand that the "quad changes everything". He'd heard it but didn't fully appreciate how difficult it was to integrate the quad into his programs - whether he nailed the jump or not.

It's one thing to be unhappy about the scoring and quite another to suggest that an athlete is gleefully taking advantage of same and sets out to skate a sloppy and error filled program because it doesn't matter what he does, the judges will hold him up.

museksk8r
12-13-2010, 09:01 PM
YES! Negative rep from Dragonlady! :respec: :rofl:

allezfred
12-13-2010, 09:11 PM
YES! Negative rep from Dragonlady! :respec: :rofl:

Seeing as you have almost 1,800 posts on this board you should be aware that if you have any issues with rep received you should take it up with the poster in question, not post about it on the board.

museksk8r
12-13-2010, 09:27 PM
Seeing as you have almost 1,800 posts on this board you should be aware that if you have any issues with rep received you should take it up with the poster in question, not post about it on the board.

I think it's clear that I don't have any issues with anyone. I don't take this forum or anything on the internet that seriously. ;)

alilou
12-13-2010, 09:55 PM
So why mention it then :rolleyes:

(Please don't answer this - the question is rhetorical. Thought I should spell that out.)

kwanette
12-13-2010, 10:02 PM
No athlete wants to win while falling four times and the idea that Chan "cruised and crashed" his way to the GPF is laughable. Patrick was interviewed by NBC and he talked about how upsetting it was to have all these falls - so much so that he worked with Brian Boitano on eliminating same.

At the time of his earlier GP events, Patrick talked about how disconcerting it was to try to inject the quad into his program. He said he didn't understand that the "quad changes everything". He'd heard it but didn't fully appreciate how difficult it was to integrate the quad into his programs - whether he nailed the jump or not.

It's one thing to be unhappy about the scoring and quite another to suggest that an athlete is gleefully taking advantage of same and sets out to skate a sloppy and error filled program because it doesn't matter what he does, the judges will hold him up.

Oh, no, not Brian Boitano! :slinkaway

Dragonlady
12-13-2010, 10:04 PM
Oh, no, not Brian Boitano! :slinkaway

Hey - Boitano had help from a Canadian to win his damn OGM, so it's only fair.

kwanette
12-13-2010, 10:07 PM
Hey - Boitano had help from a Canadian to win his damn OGM, so it's only fair.

True...and "The Canadian" has done wonders for Angel Boy Rippon...so it's all good.:respec:

Clytie
12-13-2010, 10:53 PM
True...and "The Canadian" has done wonders for Angel Boy Rippon...so it's all good

I am guessing the Canadian she was talking about was Sandra Bezic. Although Brian Orser did help. Apparently he still insists he lost based on his triple flip problem but I think alot of us believe it was because he passed on doing another triple axle. Really the fact that Boitano barely beat him is surprising but illustrates judging issues have been around for quite awhile.

As for Patrick I do think most of his PCS's are a tad excessive, but I am not a judge and as an audience member felt G/G and Grishuk/Platov's were also scored ridiciously high when they fell. More knowledgeable people than me (people who skate) have informed me they just were that much better. I still don't see it but take their more educated word for it.

I did notice that Dai scored 81 in PC's for a program that is nowhere near what he is capable of. He fell twice and was obviously, even to me winded and slower by the end. I have loved Dai's skating but even the person I was watching with was like what- especially since his TES was in the fifties. He wanted to know why his PCS were that much higher and I tried to explain but he did'nt get it. I do think the issue of PCS could be explained much better. Most people get the TES part, but artistic is harder. Speed and the height and travel distance of a jump often is not observable on the tv. That is why I like it when they show overhead shots once in awhile. I am always surprised at how much distance and how fast some skaters are moving.

As for the American men being out they can blame themselves. And the fact that Japan has three fantastic skaters at the moment. That more than anything is hurting the Americans. Its the same in the women's field. Especially if Mao bounces back.

let`s talk
12-13-2010, 10:55 PM
YES! Negative rep from Dragonlady! :respec: :rofl:

:rofl:

professordeb
12-13-2010, 11:58 PM
If a skater wants to win he must follow the rules and skate to judge-concentric programs, can you name someone who wants a medal but doesn't care about the judges? (except Plushenko in 2010, of course)? Personally I don't remember any blond-haired "pup" who was skating for the judges while the audience was sleeping in their seats or enjoying a hot drink in a cafe, please give us some examples.:saint:

Take a look back in the early/mid years of Plushenko. Most skaters were attempting to show ice coverage and IIRC, that was part of what your mark was based upon. However, Plushenko did a lot of his "tricks" out in front of the judges. I will say that at the time it was a bold thing to so because if you missed, you had no where to hide. However his ice coverage, compared to many others, was rather lacking and many commented upon it. Plushy was skating, so it seemed, only for the judges. It seemed to matter not how the audience felt about his skating.

I don't recall mentioning that the audience had to be sleeping or elsewhere, only that the "pup" aka Plushenko was skating for the judges. I was attempting to answer your post where you thought that if everyone left the stands, then Chan wouldn't win. I was attempting to explain that it's not about fans in the stands, it's about peforming so the judges can give marks.

And I'm sure I remember some on here calling Plushenko a blond "pup" back in the day.

BTW, this is NOT a slam on Plushenko only recalling what I *thought* I read here on FSU many moons ago and if I've made yet another mistake in my "remembering" I ask forgiveness in advance.

kwanette
12-14-2010, 12:20 AM
I am guessing the Canadian she was talking about was Sandra Bezic. Although Brian Orser did help. Apparently he still insists he lost based on his triple flip problem but I think alot of us believe it was because he passed on doing another triple axle. Really the fact that Boitano barely beat him is surprising but illustrates judging issues have been around for quite awhile.


Maybe it was Bezic..Well, I like across-the-border help..Patrick has an American coach, Adam , a Canadian coach and choreographer..

And I love both Brians.

Marco
12-14-2010, 03:37 AM
I can't believe this is still going on. :rofl:


Chan's victory at Skate Canada should demonstrate one thing in spades: A top level skater who lands a quad, is pretty much unbeatable, regardless of what else he does. In each of his events, Patrick Chan has landed one beautiful, highly-scored quad.

All the people who wanted the quad to really matter in Men's skating, have exactly what they wanted. The guy who lands the quad wins. And in the event of it being a guy with 80 points of PCS, the kind of skater people complained about beating guys with quads before the rule change, he's gonna win regardless of whatever else he does.

Well said. But I really think you should give up arguing with people with no arguments other than 'I think..." or "it's ridiculous...". Save yourself some breath. :P

ciocio
12-14-2010, 08:22 AM
Take a look back in the early/mid years of Plushenko. Most skaters were attempting to show ice coverage and IIRC, that was part of what your mark was based upon. However, Plushenko did a lot of his "tricks" out in front of the judges. I will say that at the time it was a bold thing to so because if you missed, you had no where to hide. However his ice coverage, compared to many others, was rather lacking and many commented upon it. Plushy was skating, so it seemed, only for the judges. It seemed to matter not how the audience felt about his skating.
............


FSU doesnīt mean audience and doesnīt mean FS fandom. I know that FSU posters didnīt realize it yet but I hope that someday they will. :rolleyes:

Whoever wants to win a medal skates for the judges, nobody goes to a competition to show the audience his ice coverage. If a skater said so, he/she lied. :)

senorita
12-14-2010, 10:23 AM
Take a look back in the early/mid years of Plushenko. Most skaters were attempting to show ice coverage and IIRC, that was part of what your mark was based upon. However, Plushenko did a lot of his "tricks" out in front of the judges. I will say that at the time it was a bold thing to so because if you missed, you had no where to hide. However his ice coverage, compared to many others, was rather lacking and many commented upon it. Plushy was skating, so it seemed, only for the judges. It seemed to matter not how the audience felt about his skating.

one word: youtube :sheep: