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zilam98
12-06-2010, 02:35 AM
As far as the goose is concerned, zilam98, I think that you were ruder than the original poster because "goose" isn't really a flattering name for a lift. Add to that that not everyone is a native English speaker and might have different associations with the word goose. Calling a lift goose would never cross my mind because in Germany, a goose wouldn't be considered as elegant so naming a lift "goose" would be stupid (silly).
I didn't know about that either; that they called a lift a goose and in my opinion a lift should have a connection to what you're doing or what it resembles and if it's the lift I have in mind, it doesn't resemble a goose. But if they want to call it goose, let them.

it's not just any fan calling the lift goose--it's v/m themselves that chose to call it such. get it? and by the way, when did i ever insinuate it's about people misunderstanding english words just coz they're not native speakers? im not a native speaker either. i just pointed out to the fact that the poster was calling the name stupid--thereby judging it--before even getting the information.

oleada
12-06-2010, 02:35 AM
I remember Domnina/Shabalin had a pretty "wow" lift the year the won the WC title and the next year, Crone/Poirier had exactly the same lift. It was a pretty unique lift, so it's the only example I remember of copying someone.

That said, there's only so many lifts you can do, and imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, right? ;)

barbk
12-06-2010, 04:21 AM
That move has always been credited ,in error, to M and D, who 'popularized' it.In this Youtube from 1986 at about 1:50, you'll see Denise Benning and Lyndon Johnston perform that position in their pairspin.As far as I know...they were the first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRUwx_Ef0rM

Thanks!

casken
12-06-2010, 04:35 AM
oh yeah? as if d/w fans dont know the name of that either. :hat1:

Well those are often the same people.

DORISPULASKI
12-06-2010, 06:15 AM
The only time that I get annoyed with copied lifts or with skaters reusing lifts, is when the lift is totally doesn't go with either the music or the program, especially in ice dance.

An example is I&K not having their new lifts ready this year at NHK and having to use old lifts that totally broke the balletic mood of their piece. It was really noticeable.

alilou
12-06-2010, 06:32 AM
Some pictures of the Canada goose

In flight
http://www.fotosearch.com/bigcomp.asp?path=SPS/SPS007/1370R-4741.jpg

On land
http://www.fotosearch.com/bigcomp.asp?path=PSK/PSK005/1574R-21502.jpg

In the water
http://www.fotosearch.com/bigcomp.asp?path=CSP/CSP474/k4743233.jpg

They are big birds, about the size of a swan, and ubiquitious!

My understanding is that V&M chose the name after people (presumably at the rink where they train) started calling it the eagle. They felt that sounded too American and wanted a Canadian name for it and so named it the goose.

DORISPULASKI
12-06-2010, 06:50 AM
Better that than the Beaver or the Loon ;)

alilou
12-06-2010, 06:51 AM
Better that than the Beaver or the Loon ;)

:lol: no kidding!

LilJen
12-06-2010, 10:00 AM
The "goose" is the name given to a move that Virtue and Moir did in their FD last season. She gets up to stand on his right thigh in a spiral position while he is in a squatted spread eagle. Then she leaps off to the right and he catches her. In the original, she did a 1.5 turn but that was judged to be 'illegal" so they changed it to a 1/2 rotation dismount.

They wanted to call it the 'eagle' but thought it was too likely to sound American, so changed it to "goose" as that is closer to Canada goose - a nationally recognized (if not always admired or cherished) bird.

Why 'the eagle'? I thought it was the goose because Scott looks very much like he's trying to lay an egg. . . or something. . .

Japanfan
12-06-2010, 10:31 AM
Well, there is really nothing new under the sun - especially in FS, given that there are limited number of moves. For many years jumps were added, singles then doubles then triples, then the quad. Will there be a quintuple jump one day?

Still, old moves can go out of fashion and be reconstructed in new ways while new moves be revised and reinterpreted. And of course there are endless permutations and computations to how movements are combined, which keeps things fresh.

One old move which I love is the cantilever - where the skater bends back from the needs so the body is parallel to the ice. Klimkin did it, and Sawyer is doing it in his FP.

But there is always room for originality. I think the goose is original, and what about Bourne and Kraatz's hydoblading?

Moscovitch and Moore-Towers have a lift where he squats on his knees before he lifts her - really cool IMO - has that been done before? (Most likely ;)

TanithandBenFan
12-06-2010, 02:15 PM
Moscovitch and Moore-Towers have a lift where he squats on his knees before he lifts her - really cool IMO - has that been done before? (Most likely ;)

Steven Pottenger was the first person I saw do that lift at U.S. Nats a few years ago. I think it was when he was paired with Stephanie Kuban. He and Kendra Moyle also had it in their programs the next couple of years.

TwizzlerS
12-06-2010, 03:38 PM
Judy Blumberg & Michael Seibert had a couple of signature moves that were rarely copied. There's the one where she is parallel to the ice and holding his leg and he lifts his other leg over her: about 4 min in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWAyYy7XjrI

Then there is the donut lift at the end of the Scheherezade FD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyfosI-IcYY&feature=related

Skate Talker
12-06-2010, 06:13 PM
That move has always been credited ,in error, to M and D, who 'popularized' it.In this Youtube from 1986 at about 1:50, you'll see Denise Benning and Lyndon Johnston perform that position in their pairspin.As far as I know...they were the first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRUwx_Ef0rM

Thanks Sedge - you beat me to it. Pretty ironic that that should have been cited near the beginning of this thread as an original move copied by other.

I seem to recall hearing that upon seeing this spin Moskvina got all excited and was heard to say something along the lines of "Thanks for our new spin".

Personally I find the Benning and Johnston version much more polite since he doesn't have a leg over her back in a position of dominance/superiority. I have actually always disliked the M&D version because I find it too disrespectful to the woman - trying to put the little lady in her place is what it says to me.

So actually to speak to the question of this thread - it really depends.

- If it is done several years after the original then usually no problem (unless the commentators don't get it right and call it original - that is beyond irritating even if not the fault of the competitors).

- If it is done simultaneously with the team they are copying it is usually alright to me if they can bring some sort of new twist to their presentation of it to make it their own, though I guess sometimes if the "originators" were favourites of mine then I might be less likely to think it's okay :lol:.

- If it is an honest acknowledgment of a "new way" of doing things and actually honours the previous skaters. For example, while I don't claim to know for sure that Ushi Kesler's hydro-blading moves popularized by Shae and Vik in ice dancing was actually "original" , the way many teams quickly began incorporating these type of moves to me was a tribute to an element they had added to ice dancing for the better and I always enjoyed seeing them when they were well done even though Shae and Vik were favourites of mine.

- almost forgot the most important - If the move isn't as ugly as all get out, like the Besti squat, or what I call the stomach-cramp rotational lift in dance where the girl is "hung" over the guys arm. Some of the pairs lifts are ugly this way too - just because you can do them doesn't make them okay in my book.

julieann
12-06-2010, 06:25 PM
Then there is the donut lift at the end of the Scheherezade FD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyfosI-IcYY&feature=related

I've seen that lift (or drop?) done better by other teams, the one B/S did in that clip was ugly :rolleyes: