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PUNKPRINCESS
12-02-2010, 05:23 PM
Yuna's pic:
http://pics.livejournal.com/bomparam/pic/003f43cs
Thanks for posting and bringing the topic back--it's a lovely pic.


I don't think that choosing the classical version of a ballet automatically requires that the interpretation be balletic any more than I think any version of "Thais" has to depict the relationship between a courtesan and a priest. If a skater comes out in a non-Romantic-style dress and skates abstract choreography to "Swan Lake" or "Giselle", there's not reason it has to look balletic, especially given the range of music in the scores. It's possible to reflect the character of the music abstractly. It would be a risky choice, since there are associations with the music, but that's also true of choosing music that's associated with other skaters.

However, if a skater comes out in a "Giselle" peasant dress and starts hopping on her toepick and/or picking the petals off daisies, then if she doesn't look balletic or otherwise offer something that fits the character, like Nakano's "Giselle", she wouldn't meet the PCS criteria to fit the theme.
I agree. :)


I don't think it would make much difference if she skated it in France.

"An homage to her home country, a love letter from Kim to Korea." Such a message a.k.a. patriotism is a very personal feeling. It is not something she shares with audience, unless the audience is her countrymen.

If, for instance, Evgeni Plushenko, skated to an homage to Russia in US, expressing his love to Russia and expressing his thanks to supports from his home country in US, featuring Russian folk music, how many of US audience would be pleased, touched, moved and get highly enthusiastic?
If, for instance, Evan Lysacek, skated to an homage to US in Russia, expressing his love to US and expressing thanks to supports from US people , featuring American folk music, would Russian audience be pleased, touched, moved and get highly enthusiastic?

I don't think so.

And if, for instance, Mao Asada skated to...... no, no. I think I should stop here...
It would be difficult for me personally to get excited about Evan Lysacek skating to anything, anywhere...but if Plushenko wants to do an homage to Russia in Canada or the U.S.A. I would gladly attend. I enjoy love stories, I like to see love in performers' eyes, even if I'm not the subject or recipient of that love... :)

Having said that, and as I pointed out earlier, a Tokyo skating audience will not be 100% Japanese; there will likely be some Koreans in that crowd. Plus, it will be a televised event.

Fun tidbits about Memoirs of a Geisha some might not know: The book was written by a white American man, and many of the female roles in the movie (including the main character) were done by Chinese actresses. :cool:

Lastly, I find it interesting that some of Yu-Na's critics don't even know that Miki Ando did Giselle... :P

kwanfan1818
12-02-2010, 05:29 PM
I didn't know Ando did a Giselle program but am not in any hurry to see it.
It was dreck. Not that many of her Morozov FS's have been much better, but at least I didn't care about what most of them were being dreck over.

IceAlisa
12-02-2010, 05:32 PM
Lastly, I find it interesting that some of Yu-Na's critics don't even know that Miki Ando did Giselle... :P

And why would I know that? I don't particularly like Ando's skating and don't always pay attention to her programs. She has nothing to offer but the jumps and I doubt that my viewing of her Giselle would change that opinion or have any bearing on the current discussion.

As to Memoirs of the Geisha--you have a keen eye for the obvious. :D

portia
12-02-2010, 05:53 PM
Ando skating to Giselle was more than a bit WTF. Seriously, Ando? Skating to the most ethereal of ballerina roles? I couldn't make it through the entire program on YT.

I enjoy Yuna's skating and hope she wins another WC this season. Yes she still has room for improvement but has potential to do it. No one is talking about her skating skills or jumps. Rather, the ancillary aspects of figure skating like toe point, line, extension, and flexibility are the main issues at hand, especially since these don't seem to be within Yuna's mastery yet. I'm sure if she wasn't skating to Giselle then the discussion wouldn't have centered on them as much.

Really hoping she continues to push herself artistically. It's not too late for Yuna to start ballet classes if she hasn't already. Improvement in turnout at her age is nearly impossible and she doesn't appear to be naturally turned-out at her hips anyways. But like Michelle who started ballet classes when she was in her teens, line and extension can be vastly improved upon.

Hopefully it's not just David Wilson teaching her balletic poses for this SP. It's going to be my most anticipated SP this season. Failure or success, I have to give kudos to Yuna and her team for taking a risk.

Off topic but still relating to ballet training and skating. Sarah Hughes studied ballet for years, concurrently with skating. She was even profiled in Dance Magazine years back, the article was what got me interested in figure skating. Looking at her old programs now, I realize that Sarah is not the best representation of "ballerina on ice" because her movements aren't fluid and line isn't the greatest. I can't imagine what they'd be like if she didn't have the ballet training though. :rolleyes:

PUNKPRINCESS
12-02-2010, 06:19 PM
And why would I know that? I don't particularly like Ando's skating and don't always pay attention to her programs. She has nothing to offer but the jumps and I doubt that my viewing of her Giselle would change that opinion or have any bearing on the current discussion.
I don't know why you wouldn't know. It's just interesting, since Yu-Na's announcement of her skating to Giselle has had a rather...noisy, polarized reception. ;) If the ballet-loyal troupe feels protective of Giselle, you'd think Ando's program to it would have been worth a mental note. But even if it's nothing to do with Ando, it makes me wonder if that is the default state of things when you are, by and large, one of the top current skaters, I mean the Olympic Gold Medalist of Ballet on Ice (thank youuuuu, Tinori Amori), despite the unpointed toes. ;)


As to Memoirs of the Geisha--you have a keen eye for the obvious. :D
Clearly, it's not obvious to some posters who think it would create some sort of nationalistic hoot of the Japanese kind. Memoirs of a Geisha, too.

PUNKPRINCESS
12-02-2010, 06:27 PM
I enjoy Yuna's skating and hope she wins another WC this season. Yes she still has room for improvement but has potential to do it. No one is talking about her skating skills or jumps. Rather, the ancillary aspects of figure skating like toe point, line, extension, and flexibility are the main issues at hand, especially since these don't seem to be within Yuna's mastery yet. I'm sure if she wasn't skating to Giselle then the discussion wouldn't have centered on them as much.
No, you raise a good point. I'm concerned about Yu-Na hopefully learning to improve toe point, extension, etc., as far as figure skating aesthetic goes, regardless of her choice of skating to ballet music!


Off topic but still relating to ballet training and skating. Sarah Hughes studied ballet for years, concurrently with skating. She was even profiled in Dance Magazine years back, the article was what got me interested in figure skating. Looking at her old programs now, I realize that Sarah is not the best representation of "ballerina on ice" because her movements aren't fluid and line isn't the greatest. I can't imagine what they'd be like if she didn't have the ballet training though. :rolleyes:
Her spins may have reflected that training...they were very nice.

IceAlisa
12-02-2010, 06:35 PM
I don't know why you wouldn't know. It's just interesting, since Yu-Na's announcement of her skating to Giselle has had a rather...noisy, polarized reception. ;) If the ballet-loyal troupe feels protective of Giselle, you'd think Ando's program to it would have been worth a mental note.
Let me be very clear: I don't expect much of Ando. I expect much of Kim. Yuna doesn't really have to be working hard on anything other than getting back into competitive shape. She doesn't have tech problems like Mao, and she has indicated she wants to push herself and try a ballet-based program. I am interested in Yuna's ability to represent Giselle. I have no interest in Ando. portia has indicated pretty much the same sentiments. Are you still confused?


But even if it's nothing to do with Ando, it makes me wonder if that is the default state of things when you are, by and large, one of the top current skaters, I mean the Olympic Gold Medalist of Ballet on Ice (thank youuuuu, Tinori Amori), despite the unpointed toes. ;) That makes no sense. And that's Tinami Amori.



Clearly, it's not obvious to some posters who think it would create some sort of nationalistic hoot of the Japanese kind. The two facts seem to be unrelated. But then it's you, so I am not really surprised.

Rob
12-02-2010, 06:40 PM
It was dreck.

That is pretty much what I recall, but I only saw it on TV the one time. I missed a lot of the GP that year, and she dropped it after it got poor comparisons to Nakano's.

IceAlisa
12-02-2010, 06:43 PM
That is pretty much what I recall, but I only saw it on TV the one time. I missed a lot of the GP that year, and she dropped it after it got poor comparisons to Nakano's.

The one skater less suited for Giselle than Ando is Leonova.

PUNKPRINCESS
12-02-2010, 06:51 PM
Let me be very clear: I don't expect much of Ando. I expect much of Kim. Yuna doesn't really have to be working hard on anything other than getting back into competitive shape. She doesn't have tech problems like Mao, and she has indicated she wants to push herself and try a ballet-based program. I am interested in Yuna's ability to represent Giselle. I have no interest in Ando. portia has indicated pretty much the same sentiments. Are you still confused?
Umm, honestly? My impression of you is that you take to many posts as if they personally threaten you. My interest in this phenomenon of criticizing Kim without knowledge of Ando's Giselle does not revolve solely around you. The occurrence may be something as benign and neutral as just expecting more of the current leading lady of figure skating. :confused: Not every comment I, or others make, is about you. Lighten up, pleeeaaase? It seems to me like you cannot help but feel the need to attack, repeatedly.


The two facts seem to be unrelated. But then it's you, so I am not really surprised.
They are not unrelated. The Koreans seem to describe something like "Arirang" as historically significant and culturally beloved. galaxy pointed out that he/she does not feel comfortable with a "national love song" being displayed anywhere outside of the performer's country. Someone else replied that Mirai's Memoirs of a Geisha (or perhaps Yukari's, as she skated to it, too :) ) was in some way analogous, which is wrong. In my opinion.

As a merely conversational piece not directed to IceAlisa ( :) ), I did not like the novel, and refrained from watching the movie. I would like to hear some Japanese comments about it, actually, what they thought about it.

PUNKPRINCESS
12-02-2010, 07:01 PM
That is pretty much what I recall, but I only saw it on TV the one time. I missed a lot of the GP that year, and she dropped it after it got poor comparisons to Nakano's.
Ando seems sweet, I feel bad.

IceAlisa
12-02-2010, 07:06 PM
Umm, honestly? My impression of you is that you take to many posts as if they personally threaten you. My interest in this phenomenon of criticizing Kim without knowledge of Ando's Giselle does not revolve solely around you. The occurrence may be something as benign and neutral as just expecting more of the current leading lady of figure skating. :confused: Not every comment I, or others make, is about you. Lighten up, pleeeaaase? It seems to me like you cannot help but feel the need to attack, repeatedly.
I was the one who said I didn't know Ando had a Giselle program, on the same page. What other poster did you mean? Not attacking, just clarifying. ;)

My honest impression of you is that you are here to needle and not really to contribute anything of value to the conversation. You have posted few things that are informative or interesting when it comes to skating.


They are not unrelated. The Koreans seem to describe something like "Arirang" as historically significant and culturally beloved. galaxy pointed out that he/she does not feel comfortable with a "national love song" being displayed anywhere outside of the performer's country. Someone else replied that Mirai's Memoirs of a Geisha (or perhaps Yukari's, as she skated to it, too :) ) was in some way analogous, which is wrong. In my opinion. Well, while the book was written by a white male and the actresses were Chinese, the action DOES take place in Japan. No, it's not exactly analogous to Arirang but I get the poster's point.


As a merely conversational piece not directed to IceAlisa ( :) ), I did not like the novel, and refrained from watching the movie. I would like to hear some Japanese comments about it, actually, what they thought about it.

I know you are not directing it at me but we have discussed Memoirs at length here on FSU. You are new so you don't know. What I had said at the time is that IMO it's a fake movie with fake actors based on a fake book. I've heard feedback from the Japanese that it's, well, fake.

However, I love John Williams' work and think the musical score has merit on its own. I don't particularly think Mirai's cut of music is the best possible but the program has potential overall. :)

PUNKPRINCESS
12-02-2010, 07:13 PM
I was the one who said I didn't know Ando had a Giselle program, on the same page. What other poster did you mean?
Uhh, Post #281? Ando has the hunched back, Yukari does not. ponta was apparently not aware.


Well, while the book was written by a white male and the actresses were Chinese, the action DOES take place in Japan. No, it's not exactly analogous to Arirang but I get the poster's point.
Very superficial.


I know you are not directing it at me but we have discussed Memoirs at length here on FSU. You are new so you don't know. What I had said at the time is that IMO it's a fake movie with fake actors based on a fake book. I've heard feedback from the Japanese that it's, well, fake.
Just as "Arirang" is fake, I'm sure. Koreans, what do you say? :)

JerseySlore
12-02-2010, 07:14 PM
I can't believe some people are bringing up Ando's Giselle. That's not the kind of standard Yu-Na, or any skater really, should subscribe to.

IceAlisa, I'm not surprised you didn't enjoy Nakano's rendition though I personally found it charming. Plenty of people can't get over her leg wraps, and that's perfectly understandable.

I don't expect Kim to have perfect turnout due to injury issues, but I expect her to be able to extend her knees and point toes. That's certainly within her capabilities, and frankly I'm surprised that never has been addressed. But what short footage of her training with Oppegard demonstrates attention to those areas, so I'm keeping my hopes up.

IceAlisa
12-02-2010, 07:17 PM
Uhh, Post #281? Ando has the hunched back, Yukari does not. ponta was apparently not aware. No. ponta didn't even mention Ando. You said:




Lastly, I find it interesting that some of Yu-Na's critics don't even know that Miki Ando did Giselle... :P
A few posts before that I said I didn't know Ando did a Giselle. Again, if you were not referring to me, which poster were you referring to when you said that? :P



Just as "Arirang" is fake, I'm sure. Koreans, what do you say? :)
See what I mean about needling and posting things that are of little interest and value? Did anyone say Arirang is fake or are you continuing to try to stir up some ...carry on, whatever floats your boat. You have bored me enough. :saint:

I can't believe some people are bringing up Ando's Giselle. That's not the kind of standard Yu-Na, or any skater really, should subscribe to. Yes, I agree that Ando is really under the radar and understandably so when it comes to the issue of Giselle.


IceAlisa, I'm not surprised you didn't enjoy Nakano's rendition though I personally found it charming. Plenty of people can't get over her leg wraps, and that's perfectly understandable. It was cute at times, I agree.


I don't expect Kim to have perfect turnout due to injury issues, but I expect her to be able to extend her knees and point toes. That's certainly within her capabilities, and frankly I'm surprised that never has been addressed. But what short footage of her training with Oppegard demonstrates attention to those areas, so I'm keeping my hopes up.
Yes, and also someone posted saying that Oppergard was trying to help her point her foot or something like that when she first started with him. It may have been one of the first pictures released of their training, I don't recall exactly. And that got my hopes up.