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View Full Version : Yuna will skate to Giselle and 'Arirang'



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burntBREAD
12-01-2010, 07:57 PM
I don't think I've ever liked a program skated to Giselle. If she does it well, great, but I don't know, I'd like to see something more interesting musically since I felt her Olympic music choices were kind of safe.

Arirang, however, I'm excited to see.

Did you like Yukari's? I think hers was the best thus far.

IceAlisa
12-01-2010, 07:59 PM
I get what you are saying, but this is a skating competition, not a ballet competition. I seriously doubt judges are going to sit there and say, "well, YuNa didn't hit the correct line with her arabesque for Giselle, so let's dock her big time."

Nope, they are not. She is likely to win if she skates the way she normally does without making an effort to represent her role so that it bears resemblence to the original Giselle. I don't think anyone is arguing that it would hurt her chances.

And portia, you are right. It's a losing battle.

Did you like Yukari's? I think hers was the best thus far.
I don't remember that program, perhaps because I am not a fan of Yukari. Could someone please link?

burntBREAD
12-01-2010, 08:03 PM
I don't remember that program, perhaps because I am not a fan of Yukari. Could someone please link?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh3xKviCJPk

I believe the part around 2:40 is part of the actual ballet itself?

Allen
12-01-2010, 08:16 PM
Did you like Yukari's? I think hers was the best thus far.

I'm going to check it out, because as soon as I said I never liked Giselle program, I kind of remembered that maybe there was one I did like, but it might have been Angela Nikidinov.

IceAlisa
12-01-2010, 08:19 PM
Thanks for the link, burntBREAD. I will watch it at home tonight and let you know my thoughts--can't watch videos at work.

Tinami Amori
12-01-2010, 08:22 PM
I get what you are saying, but this is a skating competition, not a ballet competition. I seriously doubt judges are going to sit there and say, "well, YuNa didn't hit the correct line with her arabesque for Giselle, so let's dock her big time."

If Kim skates at the top of her abilities, in any given competition today, she probably will not loose the competition from the lack of classic lines and forms.

However! Comes a skater with the same abilities, programme content + refined lines and forms, then no doubt that Yu-Na would loose to that skater.

Cohen won Olympic Silver in 2008 strictly because of her fine lines and forms which balanced out rather serious mistakes in technical elements/jumps. Without them and all the mistakes I doubt she’d place higher than 5th or maybe 4th.

Half of the score, roughly said, is still the “artistry/presentation portion” no matter how many elements it is divided into and what it is called now…


And portia, you are right. It's a losing battle.

Nothing is ever 100% a “loosing battle”…. In this case, the only method to win it, if we get a skater who is on the same technical level as Kim, and has superior forms, lines and refined dance movements.

When a skater, with superior forms and lines and dancing abilities, and same technical abilities and content, wins over Kim – there is our winning battle.

But first we must get such a skater.

IceAlisa
12-01-2010, 08:24 PM
Tinami, I think to find such a skater is an extremely tall order. Yuna has nothing to worry about.

But I agree with you about Sasha--where would she be without her lovely lines and elegance and her presence on the ice?

Her basics were not the best, although not as abysmal as some would have you believe (for some reason her basics in some of the recent show programs looked pretty good as in Moonlight Sonata but when it came to 2010 Nationals, she had slowed down and didn't use her edges as much), she is no speed demon and her jumping ability is not cream of the cream either, on top of which she was famously unreliable in the LP. And yet, she has a quite a few medals to show for it, including OSM. Who says balletic lines are not important in skating?

Allen
12-01-2010, 08:28 PM
Tinami, I think to find such a skater is an extremely tall order. Yuna has nothing to worry about.

Who knows what Yuna's current level is, but even if she is below her Olympic level, I'm not sure she has any real competition this year.

JerseySlore
12-01-2010, 08:29 PM
My hope is on Yu-Na becoming a such skater :D

IceAlisa
12-01-2010, 08:32 PM
My hope is on Yu-Na becoming a such skater :D

That would be really something.

miki88
12-01-2010, 08:38 PM
Doesn't flexibility/lines take years of work? I also think it depends on the skater's natural prowess. MK worked on her flexibility but still she couldn't come to Sasha's level in that department.

IceAlisa
12-01-2010, 08:44 PM
Doesn't flexibility/lines take years of work? I also think it depends on the skater's natural prowess. MK worked on her flexibility but still she couldn't come to Sasha's level in that department.

No, but she looked pretty darn good as the pictures I posted demostrate. I also think Kwan was a naturally graceful skater so it helped. Most importantly, she made an effort and it paid off.

floskate
12-01-2010, 09:11 PM
Everyone has their own level of natural flexibility and everyone can improve their flexibility to varying degrees, but if you ain't built that way, you won't ever achieve Cohenesque gumbiness no matter how hard you work.

Yu Na's flexibility problems lie in her sacro-illiac issues which mean that any work to improve her turnout - which is not great - would put her at greater risk of recurring injury as we have seen in the past from her. However this can be disguised with clever choreography and edgework which of course she's more than capable of. That said, stretching behind the knee, which creates the stronger, 'firmer' lines discussed upthread and pointing her feet are nothing to do with turnout or flexibility but can make the difference between so so and very good leg lines. I'm looking forward to seeing her Giselle for sure. :)

Tinami Amori
12-01-2010, 09:41 PM
Everyone has their own level of natural flexibility and everyone can improve their flexibility to varying degrees, but if you ain't built that way, you won't ever achieve Cohenesque gumbiness no matter how hard you work.

Yu Na's flexibility problems lie in her sacro-illiac issues which mean that any work to improve her turnout - which is not great - would put her at greater risk of recurring injury as we have seen in the past from her.

Very true! but then a skater who’s born with SI joint structure which limit the turn out, and her fans, should ACCEPT the fact she will never have ideal lines which depend on turn out, and must compensate with other skills in order to get higher scores.

What I am objecting to, in any field, is “reduction in Standard”, or diminishing the importance of a “Standard” just because someone is born with or has a limitation.

If one is not born with the vocal cords of Pavarotti – one can’t be Pavarotti… Let’s not diminish the value of the voice quality of Pavarotti, or say “not everyone is born like Pavarotti – therefore anyone who wants to sing Tosca in LaScala should be able to do so”, to bring the so called "egalite" into the "opera world".

If Kim does not have the physical abilities to have exquisite forms and lines – its only fair to admit that she does NOT have them.... and dance on forward from there..... :D

PUNKPRINCESS
12-01-2010, 11:41 PM
Good! That means you’re aware of “context”.


Look, you don't know/care about ballet, so you have no expectations at the mention of the classical version of Giselle.
To both of you, here is the context. I am on a figure skating forum discussing figure skating concepts related to a figure skater. If I wanted ballet, I would take myself to a ballet forum and talk about ballet. :D


Good for you. Some of us do. Some of us want to see Yuna grow as an artist because despite what the ubers think, she has room to grow. Why is that so hard to grasp?
I agree with all that. Your characterization of me as being against it or unable to grasp it is, again, incorrect. If the ubers are frustrating you, perhaps you can learn to control your emotions a bit better--try stepping away from the computer and taking a deep breath so that you can focus your answers rationally.


So you think that Elvis' own style of skating has nothing to do with his attitude? It's simply a coincidence, right? :rolleyes: And for some mysterious reasons balletic male skaters like Johnny don't seem to be campaigning for the same thing...hmmm...
Balletic male skaters like Johnny Weir skate to Poker Face. How very...ballerino of him. :lol: Johnny Weir is certainly one of the more beautiful male skaters, and he also likes to have fun, so I'm glad for him. I don't know if Elvis' stylistic limitations shaped his attitude, or whether his attitude directed his artistic choices, and I bet you don't, either. That is why your attitude/remarks are a fallacy--your judgment of his persona should not cloud your ability to judge his statement on its own merits. (As an aside, Stojko did have some well-constructed and presented programs despite his attitude towards ballet. It only furthers the notion that ballet isn't necessarily the standard or source for all figure skating artistry.)


I get what you are saying, but this is a skating competition, not a ballet competition.
Allen...Marco...Ziggy...hmm, I wonder why you three non-ubers "get" it! :P


Nothing is ever 100% a “loosing battle”…. In this case, the only method to win it, if we get a skater who is on the same technical level as Kim, and has superior forms, lines and refined dance movements.

When a skater, with superior forms and lines and dancing abilities, and same technical abilities and content, wins over Kim – there is our winning battle.

But first we must get such a skater.
Sounds like Mao, if she could get herself together. Else, I couldn't think of any other current female skater anywhere close to that ideal.