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View Full Version : Yuna will skate to Giselle and 'Arirang'



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alilou
12-01-2010, 05:21 PM
^^^ This! Even worse if it makes her lose her jumps!

briancoogaert
12-01-2010, 05:25 PM
I love Giselle, and Katia Gordeeva already skated a beautiful Giselle. I'm curious !

IceAlisa
12-01-2010, 05:31 PM
It seemed that Daisuke liked the melodic backbone of Tchaikovsky. As I said, why didn't he just do pure techno? Or techno Justin Timberlake? Or even just techno classical-song-that's-not-iconically-related-to-ballet? :rolleyes:
I've already told you that this was a modern take on the classical ballet, one that Yuna has no indication of wanting to do. She appears to be interested in doing it as it is, a ballet and a classical character, as far as we can tell from the interview. She is not interested in a modern, hip hip interpretation AFAIK. Is that clear?

Look, you don't know/care about ballet, so you have no expectations at the mention of the classical version of Giselle. Good for you. Some of us do. Some of us want to see Yuna grow as an artist because despite what the ubers think, she has room to grow. Why is that so hard to grasp?


Argumentum ad hominem is a logical fallacy. So you think that Elvis' own style of skating has nothing to do with his attitude? It's simply a coincidence, right? :rolleyes: And for some mysterious reasons balletic male skaters like Johnny don't seem to be campaigning for the same thing...hmmm...


Sure. But let me put it this way: if Peter O's forcing her to point her toes makes her lose her back bend or her speed in the layback (am thinking Kwan 1999 and 2000), or the speed and edge in the spirals (Zhang?), I will never forgive him.
And what if it doesn't? What if on top of her formidable jumping and basics, she learns to extend and stretch and look elegant? Wouldn't that be as complete a package as possible?

Frau Muller
12-01-2010, 05:34 PM
This conversation is becoming so pathetic, if it weren't so hilarious at the same time. Yu-Na hasn't even shown us 10 seconds of her Giselle and she is already being roasted. I, for one, cannot wait and know that it will be fabulous, with her willowy balllerina beauty and 'relaxed presentation' (not uptight and worried, like so many top elite women skaters). Carefree, musical, easy-going, charming. That's an ingenue Giselle...Yu-Nelle! 'Nuf said.

riveredge
12-01-2010, 05:42 PM
This conversation is becoming so pathetic, if it weren't so hilarious at the same time. Yu-Na hasn't even shown us 10 seconds of her Giselle and she is already being roasted. I, for one, cannot wait and know that it will be fabulous, with her willowy balllerina beauty and 'relaxed presentation' (not uptight and worried, like so many top elite women skaters). Carefree, musical, easy-going, charming. That's an ingenue Giselle...Yu-Nelle! 'Nuf said.

So true...and not to mention, we don't even know if she's really going to show up at next year's worlds! March is still far away! :lol:

IceAlisa
12-01-2010, 05:43 PM
This conversation is becoming so pathetic, if it weren't so hilarious at the same time. Yu-Na hasn't even shown us 10 seconds of her Giselle and she is already being roasted. I, for one, cannot wait and know that it will be fabulous, with her willowy balllerina beauty and 'relaxed presentation' (not uptight and worried, like so many top elite women skaters). Carefree, musical, easy-going, charming. That's an ingenue Giselle...Yu-Nelle! 'Nuf said.

It's not OK to voice our opinions about the program but it's totally OK for you to blather about her "willowy ballerina beauty" (with no concept of what it is, mind you) and ingenue Giselle? Have you seen 10 seconds or more of her programs and you KNOW what it's going to look like?

Plus, you are not new to FSU, correct? You know that we speculate and discuss here all the time about events in the past, present and future. Why do you act so surprised?

portia
12-01-2010, 05:46 PM
I agree that it is wrong to assume those who believe Yuna needs improvements in the lines dept. are Yuna haters. But that does not ensure that they are not haters either. You are taking only one side of it at your convenience.

Then, how are we going to tell earnest criticizer from those cool haters who pretends to be earnest criticizer?

For that, I came up with my logic that earnest criticizers must have respect to her excellence on other parts as well and that naturally and inevitably appears on their postings like yours, Portia.

But I could not find hint of such respect from the postings of IceAlisa and John317.

You are so welcome to challenge my reasoning but not imposing your belief.

No one is imposing their beliefs. I do see posts that claim Yuna having one of the best lines in FS, yet said posters not being able to define what their notion of lines is, and then doing a 180 by saying lines aren't important. That kind of reasoning defies logic.

Again, no one is even suggesting that skaters should be exactly like ballet dancers, even though comparisons between the two disciplines arise when skaters choose ballet music. That's not too hard to understand, right?

Ballet training improves a skater's posture, upper body carriage or epaulement, and of course line. It does NOT mean that skaters would be dancing ballet steps on ice, rather it gives them beautiful lines when they skate. I for one much prefer a skater who isn't hunched over while skating with floppy arms.

It was Balanchine who famously said "a person can dance anything if they have classical ballet training." I might add that Balanchine was also a neo-classicist who hated classical ballet conventions. My ultimate point is that a skater can skate to any sort of programs/ music if she/ he has basic background in ballet or has kept up with dance classes.

riveredge
12-01-2010, 05:49 PM
Sure. But let me put it this way: if Peter O's forcing her to point her toes makes her lose her back bend or her speed in the layback (am thinking Kwan 1999 and 2000), or the speed and edge in the spirals (Zhang?), I will never forgive him.

This. :respec:

portia
12-01-2010, 06:06 PM
It's not OK to voice our opinions about the program but it's totally OK for you to blather about her "willowy ballerina beauty" (with no concept of what it is, mind you) and ingenue Giselle? Have you seen 10 seconds or more of her programs and you KNOW what it's going to look like?

I'm afraid you're fighting an uphill fight against some very wrong and simplistic notions. It's funny that people will say ballet influence isn't important in a skater's Giselle program, then turn around and say that Yuna is a ballerina on ice. Contradictions drive me crazy!

It's obvious that you and me and others who are both FS fans and balletomanes have higher expectations for skating programs done to ballet music. Others may not understand, but this is MOTHERF***ING Giselle we're talking about, one of the most revered roles in ballet for both dancers and balletomanes. Like, what if when Elvis competed and he chose to skate to sacred, beloved Korean music? Korean fans would've been preemptively concerned, no?

Extranjera
12-01-2010, 06:22 PM
So true...and not to mention, we don't even know if she's really going to show up at next year's worlds! March is still far away! :lol:

I have no doubts she will show up at worlds. She works on her programs, don't you think she wouldn't do it if she didn't want to compete? ;)

kwanfan1818
12-01-2010, 06:24 PM
I think if "Giselle" can survive Miki Ando's dreadful version and Nicole Bobek's near 180 degree spiral -- although much else in her performance was quite lovely -- it can survive anything Yu Na Kim does to it, even with blocky feet. On the ballet stage it has survived Zakharova's extensions and Somova ;)

I'd love to see Kim skate up to it, though.

portia
12-01-2010, 06:44 PM
I think if "Giselle" can survive Miki Ando's dreadful version and Nicole Bobek's near 180 degree spiral -- although much else in her performance was quite lovely -- it can survive anything Yu Na Kim does to it, even with blocky feet. On the ballet stage it has survived Zakharova's extensions and Somova ;)

I'd love to see Kim skate up to it, though.

LOL, totally agree with you on Somova.....egregious display of gymnastics-like extensions is just plain gross.

Allen
12-01-2010, 07:27 PM
I think if "Giselle" can survive Miki Ando's dreadful version and Nicole Bobek's near 180 degree spiral -- although much else in her performance was quite lovely -- it can survive anything Yu Na Kim does to it, even with blocky feet. On the ballet stage it has survived Zakharova's extensions and Somova ;)

I'd love to see Kim skate up to it, though.

I don't think I've ever liked a program skated to Giselle. If she does it well, great, but I don't know, I'd like to see something more interesting musically since I felt her Olympic music choices were kind of safe.

Arirang, however, I'm excited to see.

Tinami Amori
12-01-2010, 07:37 PM
Honey, my nickname is meant to be a joke.

Good! That means you’re aware of “context”.

And in the “context” of one of the most famous classical Ballets, such as “Giselle”, in order to effectively present its “essence” a performer is required to and must be able execute classical ballet elements effectively.

That applies to any performance which utilizes the classical music version of Giselle: ice-skating programme, rhythmic gymnastics routine, synchronized-swimming formation, etc….

This does not just applies to Yu-Na Kim… and does not just applies to “ballet”… but to any performer using music from any distinct, recognized and established dance style…. Jazz, Folk, Latin, Ballroom, Modern, etc..

Every dance style has its set of elements and STANDARS for their execution and visual effect!

Yes, the horrid scary to the young people in the New World word “Standards”! Standards where you sleep in the bedroom, eat in the dining room, cook in the kitchen, and entertain guests in the sitting room! Standards where in Ballet one is required to point your toes, and in Jazz to have a good hip isolation, and in Waltz count to 1-2-3..

Obviously, Yu-Na Kim, has an abundance of skills and abilities which allow her to win skating competitions, but “refinement in dance elements” in major dance styles is NOT one of such qualities…….. and in “Ballet style” the lack of such would be most obvious.

One can “fake” a line in a “hip thrust” for “All that Jazz” or a knee kick in “Kazachek”, but you can’t “fake” a leg line in an arabesque in “Giselle”….
http://www.ballet-dance.com/200609/articles/images/GisellePavlenko.jpg

Yu-Na Kim at present does NOT have the ability to execute it effectively.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Ladies_2009_Festa_On_Ice_spiral.JPG

Yu-Na is not skating to a “modernized version” of Giselle (like Arakawa’s Syber-Swan), she chose to skate to the Classical Giselle……. and she has a limitation: she lacks the ability and training to execute ballet movements and lines effectively.

The lack of ballet lines WILL affect the quality of her presentation in a classical version of Giselle.

If she changes that - then GOOD! But now she is not there!

Allen
12-01-2010, 07:43 PM
The lack of ballet lines WILL affect the quality of her presentation in a classical version of Giselle.

I get what you are saying, but this is a skating competition, not a ballet competition. I seriously doubt judges are going to sit there and say, "well, YuNa didn't hit the correct line with her arabesque for Giselle, so let's dock her big time."