PDA

View Full Version : Vaitsehovskaya's interview with Morozov



Pages : 1 2 3 [4] 5

Tinami Amori
11-26-2010, 11:31 PM
I don´t really see any difference between what Tahbka wrote and what you wrote. You both have him saying the same thing.

I think it is a good idea to offer an alternative translation and to elaborate on the “language” if some posters getting an impression that Morozov said “All Japanese male skaters are ugly”, when in fact he did not say that……. :lol:

IceAlice…… I have to share your PM for the other Russian-speaking readers:


How do you say "ambulance" in Japanese? A-komu-to hirovato.
:D

dupa
11-27-2010, 12:01 AM
A bigot is a bigot in any language.

Tinami Amori
11-27-2010, 12:36 AM
A bigot is a bigot in any language.

He is not a bigot. Well, maybe by the “recent progressive standards of western political correctness”….. and that shall pass too......:D

He generalizes often. It’s more acceptable in a Russian society to “generalize about a group of people”, nobody freaks out about it as much as in North America for example.

He views Asian skaters as a “group” with certain features which in his opinion are relevant to some degree to results in skating. His other comments in previous interviews were “Asians are hardest working athletes. Asians have physical composition which makes them better jumpers. Etc.”.

The so called “progressives” like to call such generalizations “bigotry”, in other cultures and in certain fields of science it is simply called “group pattern recognition”. To each its own…..

dupa
11-27-2010, 12:41 AM
I'm sorry Tinami and I understand the whole translation issue very well but Morozov is very much a bigot.

IceAlisa
11-27-2010, 01:35 AM
I'm sorry Tinami and I understand the whole translation issue very well but Morozov is very much a bigot.

Wasn't there some drunken spat he got into where he said some not so nice things about the Japanese, excepting Miki?

kwanfan1818
11-27-2010, 02:45 AM
I think it is a good idea to offer an alternative translation and to elaborate on the “language” if some posters getting an impression that Morozov said “All Japanese male skaters are ugly”, when in fact he did not say that……. :lol:

Nor did the translation say anything about ugly:


Another reason it's hard working with the Japanese male skaters is because they lack any special physical appearance. When the skater is really good looking it doesn't matter what he does - it will look good even if the programme is changed every day.

What I understood from this (TAHbKA's) and your alternate translation is that he thinks the male Japanese skaters' looks are no great shakes. I didn't think he was saying they were ugly, but that they weren't handsome/good looking enough to get the "pretty" bump.

He didn't have to say they were ugly to show me he has crap taste in men.

let`s talk
11-27-2010, 02:58 AM
Question for Japanese speakers: in English, Daisuke's last name is of course TakahaSHI, last syllable pronounced (SHEE). In Russian it is transliterated as TakahaSI with the last syllable pronounced SEE. What is closer to the actual Japanese prononciation?

I also wondered why Yuko Kawaguchi had to change her last name to Kavaguti when she came to Russia (and accepted Russian citizenship). I don't really see is russification of the name. While there is no "w" sound and all w's become v's in Russian (Vot is your name?), there is a ch sound as in "cheers".


Russian transcription of Japanese names is phonological rather than phonetic. It's a tradition that started, IIRC, in the 1920s (the so-called Ivanov&Polivanov's system) Phonologically, it's /t/ and /s/ there, which surface phonetically as alveolo-palatal [tɕ] and [ɕ] before /i/. I'd say that the English transcription is closer to the actual pronunciation but the Japanese sounds are still quite different.
You do know that Russsian is in cyrillic. The transcription of Japanese names in romaji (latin alphabet) has a little or nothing to do with Russians. ISO 3602 aka kunrei-shiki romaji is a product of the Japanese government and is taught in Japanese elemenatry schools. J-kids, who never heard of what-they-write-in-Russia also write -si and -ti, not -shi and -chi. Russians just took what Japanese do with their names, not vice versa. By the way, it's not always the case when Japanese or Russians deal with writing Japanese names in passports. One of my friend wrote a request to the Russian consulate to issue her a passport with "Kobayashi", not "Kobayasi", and it was approved. This example counts as an individual exceptions which is pretty legal. The standard way is ISO 3602. Still the Hepburn system with -shi and -chi is closer to the actual pronunciation.

kwanfan1818
11-27-2010, 03:05 AM
My visa for Russia to attend 2005 Worlds spelled my first name as a similar, but different, name, even though there are Cyrillic letters that are a perfect match; the similar name wasn't what I'd be called in Russian, either.

let`s talk
11-27-2010, 03:18 AM
My visa for Russia to attend 2005 Worlds spelled my first name as a similar, but different, name, even though there are Cyrillic letters that are a perfect match; the similar name wasn't what I'd be called in Russian, either.

My Russian first name could be written in two different ways in the Latin alphabet. The official way was one years ago when I got my very first passport for international travelling. Then they changed the official way and I had to write a request to keep the way they write my first name the same as it was from the start. It was done. The ways how they write names can change, and even differ from officials to officials, which is ridiculous I think. By the way the same goes to Japanese officials when they deal with writing Russian names in katakana. Still, even if Ivanova as イヴァノヴァ is closer to the actual pronunciation, in the official J-documents, like koseki tohon (family register) they write イバノバ (literally, ibanoba) because ヴァ is offficially not in use for documents. I haven't heard that this rule has been changed.

The point is Japanese are taught to write -si and -ti (not -shi and -chi) at schools and Russians have nothing to do with that.

kimkom
11-27-2010, 03:35 AM
Nor did the translation say anything about ugly.

No, I said that. I was just kidding.....sort of. :shuffle:

ETA: Just to be clear, I didn't say they were ugly, I asked if that's what Morozov was implying. ;)

let`s talk
11-27-2010, 03:37 AM
He is not a bigot. Well, maybe by the “recent progressive standards of western political correctness”….. and that shall pass too......:D

He generalizes often. It’s more acceptable in a Russian society to “generalize about a group of people”, nobody freaks out about it as much as in North America for example.

He views Asian skaters as a “group” with certain features which in his opinion are relevant to some degree to results in skating. His other comments in previous interviews were “Asians are hardest working athletes. Asians have physical composition which makes them better jumpers. Etc.”.

The so called “progressives” like to call such generalizations “bigotry”, in other cultures and in certain fields of science it is simply called “group pattern recognition”. To each its own…..

Well said. Thanks. Might help some people to accept the idea that mentality is not universal.:respec:

IceAlisa
11-27-2010, 06:01 AM
I just saw Florent's SP at TEB and while I liked it and like Florent's skating, I am reminded of Sparky Polastri of the Bring It On fame.

Civic
11-27-2010, 06:58 AM
No. I think he said they don't stand out in their physical appearance. Between that and calling someone ugly is a long way. I think he meant like - Kiira Korpi stands out in her physical appearance, while the other European ladies don't necessarily. Which, as said, would be a far cry from calling them ugly

This was my interpretation of Morozov's remarks as well. They're not ugly; they're just ordinary looking. But it goes deeper than that, imo. I always thought Alexei Yagudin was rather ordinary looking yet he always managed to look good on the ice, even when wearing one of his more unfortunate costumes. He has a certain charisma that makes him sexy.

Example #2, Evgeny Plushenko isn't handsome but he also doesn't look like anyone else in the sport of figure skating. To start with, he's taller than most male single skaters. He uses his long, slender limbs to take up the maximum amount of space making himself appear even bigger on the ice. Throw in the hawk-like nose, the icy blue eyes and bad hair and you have an unforgettable skater.

Yags and Plushy have something (beyond their exceptional skating skills) that makes up for their lack of physical beauty. The Japanese male skaters don't.

Tinami Amori
11-27-2010, 07:06 AM
Well said. Thanks. Might help some people to accept the idea that mentality is not universal.:respec:

Apparently Japanese Federation and the Public do not have any problems with Morozov’s generalizations about “Asian skaters/Japanese skaters”.

His book is advertised and purchased in Japan. “'Kiss and Cry'
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/sp20100210f1.html

He continues to train Ando and advise other Japanese skaters.

As to your comment, Let’s Talk….. North Americans (who make up the majority of posters on FSU, INSPITE of the fact that FSU is officially an International Board, owned by a Brit), have their own perverted concept of “Political Correctness” which has its roots in many historic, geo-political and socio-political facts of the country.

Americans were so hell-bent on making sure that “nobody is offended by the truth or reality” that now its economy is in “dupa” because “everyone had to have a house even if they could not afford one” and education is in “zhopa” because “no student must hear that he/she is stupid and should work harder”….. it might offend the “stupid and lazy”….. :lol:

Japanese probably could not care less about Morozov’s comments, if in fact his comments are “bigoted”… The good thing about Japanese, is when it comes to foreigners – they want “results” out of them, not “love and admiration”. The dynamics of “respect and honor” inside their own society – is for “their own society”. Foreigners are foreigners! Foreigners are there to serve a function.

Хоть горшом назови – только в печь не сажай. Call me a “pot” – just don’t stick me in the oven…… :D

I got a story for you: Few years ago we’re sitting in Ginza Daihatsu Hotel/TYO in a bar for a business meeting. There are 3 factions. American/Chicago company who owns few Delta retired Boeing and wants to sell it or lease it; Japanese Bank/Investment representatives who want to buy the aircrafts and lease them; a Russian Regional airline who wants the aircrafts and wants the Japanese to buy and lease.

We’re on our 3rd night at the hotel, and everyone of us already has a liquior bottle at the bar with our name-tag on it……. half-empty…. :D.

The Japanese guy finished his bottle off, and makes a joke to Russians and Americans: You better have good final selling price on these tin cans, we have to make money, especially since we have to lease them to Novices who use plumbing wrenches to fix the landing gear.

- Russians laugh……
- I laugh….
- Japanese dudes laugh….
- Americans turn white in the face and nearly faint……. “He called our Boeings tin-cans”! He called you Russians “Novices”!!!!
I said to the American, sit down dude…. Delta is dumping most of the -200 fleet, so is Aloha and Lufthansa….. You want the deal or not? It’s blimey ~ 5 mils….. No American airline will take your tin can, and no American bank will finance it…. You want money, or PC?

Fortunately the American listened to my “un-PC”…… we’re still flying the “tin can”…. And I painted it "Kommie-Red" to piss off one of our "Western Clients" Exxon- Mobile........ :D
http://www.airplane-pictures.net/images/uploaded-images/2009-11/2/68215.jpg

But too many Americans and “American-wanna-be” immigrants from Russian, who lack sense of identity, will bend hell-backwards to “fight for the correct form of expression”…….. Trust me…..I’ve lived in the hell-hole called PC-California for over 35 years…….

I’ve read your comments in “Plushy” topic….You are impressively educated, knowledgeable and well versed on array of issues!

I was going to reply to you with “Matthews 7:6”, but then I decided not….. this is too much fun!

:D

Japanfan
11-27-2010, 07:14 AM
BUT he's still one of the most successful coaches/choreographers right now and I have to give him credit for that.

Is he? Who are his top-ranking students at present, other than Miki - Amodio is not yet top-rated, though he does have potential. And his work with Miki is less than impressive. His comment that she liked to jump so music choices were therefore limited seemed completely lame to me. Bit surprise she's not improving.

I don't remember when he stopped working with Takahashi, but will concede that he did do some brilliant choreography for him - remember him being quoted as saying his did his best work with Takahashi.

It seems to me Morozov was more in demand a few years ago, before people figured out that he was always borrowing Yagudin's footwork.

IMO he has a long, long way to go before he can even begin to fill TAT's footsteps. Bourne and Kraatz went with Morozov when the two split, but I don't know much credit can be given to him for the WC performances, given that he and TAT had laid the groundwork for B/K together and their free program that year was not particularly original.