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screech
11-25-2010, 12:55 AM
It's not Patrick's fault the judges are corrupted. Why blame a skater for accepting his scores? When a skater is underscored, he has to accept his scores- and it's the same thing with overscoring. I don't know of any skater who would TURN DOWN an overscored medal-

I remember Jeff Buttle winning the 2004 4CC with a poor skate, and looking completely shocked. And there was a bit of fan outrage, but his response was something like "I'm going to look at it as though I got a promotion at work, and I just have to work hard to prove that I deserved it." Patrick has worked to prove himself, but it seems the people who don't particularly like him will still find ways to criticize him. I'm like that with Mao and Plushenko, so I'm not throwing stones. Patrick is addressing the criticism though - he does have a gorgeous quad now (though he has only landed it 50% of the time in competition so far).

Really though, is it the skater's fault that the judges like them? Patrick does have outstanding skating skills, and performs the hell out of his program, and his transitions are unmatched in the mens event. The people who want to protest should do so against the judges, not against the skater. And the event organizers will likely not permit the hanging of such banners, and if they are hung, the ISU will request their removal. So, I'm going to say that while the discussion of the banners happening has caused buzz, it won't actually happen.

And besides, Patrick usually doesn't place well at the GPF - any other event their upset would be valid, but if we go by history, Patrick will likely come 5th-ish with poor skates at the GPF.

judgejudy27
11-25-2010, 01:05 AM
performs the hell out of his program

This part is so not true.

dundas
11-25-2010, 01:12 AM
I Patrick has worked to prove himself,

, and performs the hell out of his program, And the event organizers will likely not permit the hanging of such banners, and if they are hung, the ISU will request their removal. .

Show us the evidence that Patrick has worked hard to prove himself. People are angry because of the opposite. He fell 4 times per event on average this season. He has showed no desire to stop doing that. What's the point for him to improve if judges continue to reward him with those sloppy performances.

Show us evidence he performs the hell out of his program. Except in Canada, Chan has not been a particular favorite of ordinary audience because he does not perform. He does so-called 'skating skills' for so-called fans who believe they know skating better than others. In reality, how many so-called FSU fans have ever stepped on ice in their entire life?

Why should organizers ban hanging of banners criticizing unfair judging and skaters as well? Why? What's the basis? Do you really want ISU to act like a dictator?:shuffle:

professordeb
11-25-2010, 01:44 AM
Show us the evidence that Patrick has worked hard to prove himself. People are angry because of the opposite. He fell 4 times per event on average this season. He has showed no desire to stop doing that. What's the point for him to improve if judges continue to reward him with those sloppy performances.

Show us evidence he performs the hell out of his program. Except in Canada, Chan has not been a particular favorite of ordinary audience because he does not perform. He does so-called 'skating skills' for so-called fans who believe they know skating better than others. In reality, how many so-called FSU fans have ever stepped on ice in their entire life?

Why should organizers ban hanging of banners criticizing unfair judging and skaters as well? Why? What's the basis? Do you really want ISU to act like a dictator?:shuffle:

OK, IF Patrick was never intent on improving himself then he wouldn't bother trying the quad and still keeping up with the rest of his program. Put those together and it IS a performance. Yeah, so he falls, so what? Last year he got criticized for NOT trying the quad and judges were giving him good marks then, especially in the PCS. He's trying to add the quad to his arsenal and the judges reward him for ALL that he does and deduct the way they are supposed to when he messed up. Just because someone falls does NOT mean they are not trying to prove themselves. In this case it actually means he is working on trying to be the whole package. Falling in a program (even multiple times) does not mean that someone isn't trying to prove they belong. If that were the case, why would anyone want to try anything new cause after all, if they fall it really means they aren't trying. Hmmm ... guess that means the skaters who fall more than once in any competition aren't trying to prove themselves. Somehow, I doubt any skater would agree with you on that.

Chans scores: It is NOT his fault that the judges give him the marks that they do any more than it is Joubert's fault he gets the PCS that he doesn't deserve in the eyes of many here. Does than mean some of us who believe that Joubert has been given marks that he doesn't deserve - in our eyes - should have a banner made that "calls" him out on his skating just because I don't agree with what the jugdes are giving him for marks? Hmmmm???? (BTW, I'm just using Joubert as an example).

You want to protest what the judges are handing out? Fine, do so. However, calling out a skater because the judges like him - completely childish and much like many of the posts I've read about Patrick over the past year. He must have really arrived to have generated so much venom. It's not snarking that's going on in the forum - it's just plain nastiness.

I doubt Patrick has done anything personally to any of you naysayers - you're just pissed because the judges like him and are placing him above "your" fav. You don't like how he's being scored? Complain about the judges, complain about the rules, complain to the ISU, make up your banners to protest these. Or maybe you should just grow the hell up. If none of these appeal, may I suggest that you just build a bridge and get over yourselves already.

OK, I'm :scream: cause that's a rant that's been building inside me for a while.

Ozzisk8tr
11-25-2010, 02:21 AM
Show us the evidence that Patrick has worked hard to prove himself. People are angry because of the opposite. He fell 4 times per event on average this season. He has showed no desire to stop doing that. What's the point for him to improve if judges continue to reward him with those sloppy performances.

Show us evidence he performs the hell out of his program. Except in Canada, Chan has not been a particular favorite of ordinary audience because he does not perform. He does so-called 'skating skills' for so-called fans who believe they know skating better than others. In reality, how many so-called FSU fans have ever stepped on ice in their entire life?

Why should organizers ban hanging of banners criticizing unfair judging and skaters as well? Why? What's the basis? Do you really want ISU to act like a dictator?:shuffle:

What a stupid post! What do you mean he has shown no desire to stop falling. That in itself is one of the dumbest comments I've ever read. Do you really think he falls intentionally? "Skating skills for so called fans?" Have you ever even skated? Apart from a Friday night maybe with the local bogan hoons that hang around rinks on those nights. Do you know what a skating skill even is? Please go back to your pre-school and take your nap, you may be in a better mood when you wake. :rolleyes:

dundas
11-25-2010, 02:27 AM
In this case it actually means he is working on trying to be the whole package. Falling in a program (even multiple times) does not mean that someone isn't trying to prove they belong. .

Chans scores: It is NOT his fault that the judges give him the marks .

He keeps on falling on that damn 3A and you keep on saying his 4-fall-per- event proves he's improving. Yeah, improving, my ass.

Of course Patrick Chan is part of the problem. He is the epitome of the PCS mess. Patrick's lack of self-criticism is exactly why the outrage towards him is justifiable. :saint:

aaron
11-25-2010, 03:42 AM
Patrick is not trying!?

Last year people were criticizing him for not giving out the quad. Now he's doing it. Even though his success rate is 50%, he hit beautiful 4T and even 4T-3T in the Short Program! He got started with other new jumps in this season as well. 3A-3T which he landed in Russia, 3Lo-3T in Skate Canada, and 3Lz-1lo-2S which was intended to be 3S. All in 2 competition.

Maybe he crammed up too much new stuff at once. He falls and that's not so good. But he's not falling because he wants to. He has improved on his spin and footwork too. I admire his spirit. He's a great skater who keeps on striving IMO.

Rafter
11-25-2010, 04:04 AM
Show us the evidence that Patrick has worked hard to prove himself. People are angry because of the opposite. He fell 4 times per event on average this season. He has showed no desire to stop doing that. What's the point for him to improve if judges continue to reward him with those sloppy performances.

Show us evidence he performs the hell out of his program. Except in Canada, Chan has not been a particular favorite of ordinary audience because he does not perform. He does so-called 'skating skills' for so-called fans who believe they know skating better than others. In reality, how many so-called FSU fans have ever stepped on ice in their entire life?

Why should organizers ban hanging of banners criticizing unfair judging and skaters as well? Why? What's the basis? Do you really want ISU to act like a dictator?:shuffle:

I think the average age of FSU posters has just come down by about 8 years with your registration/posting. :rolleyes:

professordeb
11-25-2010, 04:06 AM
He keeps on falling on that damn 3A and you keep on saying his 4-fall-per- event proves he's improving. Yeah, improving, my ass.

Of course Patrick Chan is part of the problem. He is the epitome of the PCS mess. Patrick's lack of self-criticism is exactly why the outrage towards him is justifiable. :saint:

:rolleyes: :blah: :P

Rafter: I like your response. I also realized that dundas has only been with us since some time this month and has apparently ticked off some people who can give out rep - maybe a lot of pissing off considering how many red bars I see under their name. Guess this is what rep looks like for a troll ;)

venja
11-25-2010, 06:22 AM
The best protest banner I have ever seen was a huge "Silence is Gold" to a certain Japanese announcer in 2007 Worlds. That was just :rofl:

Someone should show that banner to Scott Hamilton. Or anyone else who talks too much during a skate.

ETA: I hope that Patrick keeps truckin' along and has a great skate at the GPF.

luCN
11-25-2010, 06:36 AM
now you know why I said they are all little children and never listen to others:duh:

screech
11-25-2010, 06:43 AM
Show us the evidence that Patrick has worked hard to prove himself. People are angry because of the opposite. He fell 4 times per event on average this season. He has showed no desire to stop doing that. What's the point for him to improve if judges continue to reward him with those sloppy performances.

Show us evidence he performs the hell out of his program. Except in Canada, Chan has not been a particular favorite of ordinary audience because he does not perform. He does so-called 'skating skills' for so-called fans who believe they know skating better than others. In reality, how many so-called FSU fans have ever stepped on ice in their entire life?

Why should organizers ban hanging of banners criticizing unfair judging and skaters as well? Why? What's the basis? Do you really want ISU to act like a dictator?:shuffle:
I myself was a competitive figure skater for many years, so I do understand skating skills and I do understand the sport quite well. He is able to work the blade in a manner most skaters can't, and has an ease of movement across the ice. His skating performance isn't as showy as a Joubert or a Plushenko, but that's because he never stops with the connecting moves, and whether he makes mistakes or not, he continues to give it his all, putting everything into the entire routine.

Yes, Patrick may fall on jumps, and he gets the required deductions and -GOE. But he's one of those skaters who doesn't let a fall affect the movement of the program, the speed, and the choreography. That is a reason for his high PCS. The jumps may be sloppy at times, but the performance is not.

And not improving? Successfully adding a quad to his repertoire is not improving? Steps into every jumps (hello transitions!) is not improving? Pushing himself to try new styles of choreography (like the more playful SP) is not improving? If Patrick is NOT improving, I'd love to see someone who is!

As for the banning of certain banners: bashing of skaters and judging looks bad on the ISU who run the event. Why would they want that? It is an ISU event - the organizers answer to them. Bad publicity and bad relationship with the ISU leads to ISU not wanting to continue said relationship with said organizers in the future, which leads to an iffy situation with China in hosting more ISU events. Plus, it reflects poorly on the Chinese skating fans, even those who have nothing to do with it, because people will look back and say "Oh yeah, the bitter ones" when thinking of the audience at the event (as unfair as it may be to those who aren't being bitter).

I'm just stating my opinion on the topic. I know no minds will be changed or anything, and that's fine. But this is my opinion on Patrick's skating, and we're all entitled to one. As I said in my previous post, I never understood the Plushenko marks for standing around and posing, but I could appreciate that others did, and that those 'others' included the judges.

It's okay to have favourites and ones we don't enjoy quite as much, but do we really have to be so bitter about it?

Igloo
11-25-2010, 08:08 AM
Really have no idea what is the logical connection between Johnny funs who had not heard Mao and people who want to protest Chan on GPF......:confused:And I don't think those who only know Johnny on AOI are shameful...Actually anyone who paid the tickets for AOI all made a contribution to the development of China's figure skating no matter how many skaters they have already know, especially when the show comes to China at the first time. Besides,closer to home,most people in Tieba didn't agree put any banners like that on GPF at all...
For LuCN,you have no rights to definate who is the TRUE fun and who is not... moreover, you are not qualified to represent anyone but yourself,thus making you seem so childish......- -

bek
11-25-2010, 08:43 AM
Yes, Patrick may fall on jumps, and he gets the required deductions and -GOE. But he's one of those skaters who doesn't let a fall affect the movement of the program, the speed, and the choreography. That is a reason for his high PCS. The jumps may be sloppy at times, but the performance is not.

I'm sorry but I disagree with you about the concept that a program with 3falls can ever not be sloppy. For you maybe falls don't affect the performance. But I think you need to understand that for some of us, falls DO affect the performance-all the time. Because the jumps are part of the performance. You need to accept the fact that there are some of us who are never going to consider a performance "with multiple falls a good performance" No matter how good the skater is. No matter how great the skater's edges are, or how complicated the choregraphy is.


It's okay to have favourites and ones we don't enjoy quite as much, but do we really have to be so bitter about it?


I'm tired of people saying that those of us are complaining about Patrick's marks are complaining just because we don't like Patrick-that its something personal about Chan. I can't speak for everyone else, but I can say that I'm complaining not because I dislike Patrick, but because I dislike the concept of a system where someone can get HUGE PCS for peformances that have a lot of messy elements.

For example everyone knows I adore Yu-na Kim, but there are posts where I'm literally complaining about her PCS marks being way to high at Worlds. I really felt that Mao deserved at the very least higher P/E marks for her free program. If Yu-na was the type of skater who was repeatedly having multiple falls in her program, and repeatedly getting huge PCS, I'd be complaining about Yu-na's scores as much as I complain about Chan.

And as I said before Chan-when he skates well is brilliant. Its not about him, its a frustration with this system because its clear that skating clean is not valued at all. Its clear too that execution is not valued at all. And I'm extremely frustrated by this as a fan. And also because I know that when casual fans watch the sport, they think is a joke.

Vash01
11-25-2010, 08:47 AM
I remember Jeff Buttle winning the 2004 4CC with a poor skate, and looking completely shocked. And there was a bit of fan outrage, but his response was something like "I'm going to look at it as though I got a promotion at work, and I just have to work hard to prove that I deserved it." Patrick has worked to prove himself, but it seems the people who don't particularly like him will still find ways to criticize him. I'm like that with Mao and Plushenko, so I'm not throwing stones. Patrick is addressing the criticism though - he does have a gorgeous quad now (though he has only landed it 50% of the time in competition so far).

Really though, is it the skater's fault that the judges like them? Patrick does have outstanding skating skills, and performs the hell out of his program, and his transitions are unmatched in the mens event. The people who want to protest should do so against the judges, not against the skater. And the event organizers will likely not permit the hanging of such banners, and if they are hung, the ISU will request their removal. So, I'm going to say that while the discussion of the banners happening has caused buzz, it won't actually happen.

And besides, Patrick usually doesn't place well at the GPF - any other event their upset would be valid, but if we go by history, Patrick will likely come 5th-ish with poor skates at the GPF.

I think some of the backlash we are seeing in Chan's case may have to do with how he presents himself off the ice, in interviews. A little humility could go a long way to change the public perception.